Controls Engineers In Over Their Heads?

[jstolaruk]

The worst are bosses (who are not trained eletrically) who believe, because they are the boss, that they know more than their trained employees. My boss's son is one of those guys; he just can't accept that there are people that have more experience and knowledge than he does. On any topic! Sure costs the company a lot of money.

 

[olias]

I'm in over my head for sure! Started out in Field service as a mechanic, then had to learn basic electrical, then PLCs, drives, etc. Then over the years as people retired or got downsized, I got more things thrown at me. Now I'm it. But, I have no problem calling for help as I need it. Learning more now then I ever did in School. Oh, Boy.

 

[Allan Barnes]

Yes the bosses Son Syndrom is always a fun one to deal with. I find it equaly frustrating to deal with an individual fresh out of school who thinks they know everthing. That one drove me bonkers, how do you teach some one who alreads know every thing, and thinks they can do your job better with out haveing walked a mile in your shoes.

As far as other peole fiddling around with code, I found that documentation is the Key. While 60% of the code is fault monitoring and recovery, I find that I spend the majority of my time doing programm documentation.

I find that if I am doing a formula, sequencer, or PID if I put in the rung comment every thing to do with what I am doing, 2 things happen.
1. I can easly figure out where I went wong if It does work properly or needs to be changed.
2. The next person to see the code understands the code as soon as they are done reading the comment as oposed to, 20 min later and still being a little uncertain.

 

[MarkTTU]

It's a jungle out there and unfortuantely there are plenty of 'animals' willing to fiddle with machines they have no business fiddling with, but know this..........you'll never stop them!

The real problem was explained to me by an EE I know...
"The problem with idiot proffing is they keep coming out with better idiots."

 

[Jimmie_Ohio]

"Controls Engineers in over their heads..." It's the nature of the beast. Here's why:

1) The controls are always the LAST thing to be done on a machine or process. Therefore, any delay incurred by anyone else becomes the controls engineer's problem. He is by definition, "always under the gun."

2) The control engineer must know how EVERYTHING works. This is so he (or she) can control it. Ask a machine designer to do something to the PLC and see how quick he will run away. Therefore, any machine design flaw becomes the controls engineer's problem.

3) The controls engineer is a slave to many masters. For example, sales, purchasing, the customer, ad nauseum. What this means is if there's not enough money to do it right, or someone wants a device that is not being applied correctly, this now becomes the controls engineer's problem.

4) There is a fascination with technology that only controls engineers understand. Anything goes wrong, it must be the "PLC program". Even a program that has worked for ten years flawlessly. Impossible that something mechanical broke. Also impossible to tell because we had to use a cheap PLC, and there wasn't enough time or money to provide the documentation or training to the end user to support this beast.

I could go on and on, but you all see yourselves stuck in the middle of what I am saying. I'm sure you all could add to my list.

 

[tmechanic]

I'm over my head a good 60% of the time, but then that's why I come here. What troubles me is the engineers who're supposed to know this stuff who can't even make it as far as I can, I'm just a tech goon I'm not supposed to write programs my job is to tweak them until they work right. It drives me insane when I walk up to a program and it keeps looking for inputs that were never programed or sending to outputs that never existed.

 

[kamenges]

Like mellis said several posts back, it's all in how you respond to the situation. If you never get in over your head you aren't going to grow. As long as the individual responds thoughtfully with a careful approach things are learned and the individual grows. Both good things on many fronts.

I think a big cause of the over-your-head syndrome is driven by the combination of the field getting younger through retirement and the corporate pressures to do more with less. Many companies don't replace older engineers who retire or replace them with less experienced engineers for mainly financial reasons. The less experienced engineers will run into things they have nevers seen on almost a daily basis and may not have the experienced individual at hand to help them out.

I was pretty lucky when I started out. I had a whole slew of real bright people around me to help me when I stumbled. That may be more the exception than the rule today. Then again, I didn't have this forum.

Keith

 

[Johnny T]

I agree with many of the posters on this thread. There won't be many people in this industry who have never been in 'over their head'.

That's how you learn and get better. Again, as mentioned, the approach to the problem is the most crucial and I think that this is what separates the wheat from the chaff.

Knowing not only where you can get help, but also 'what' and 'how' to ask. If you have initiative, determination and patience you can accomplish 99% of jobs.

I think I'd find a job boring that didn't provide me with challenges, it would become dull and repetitive.

To balance all that though... if by engineers/electricians etc being "in over their heads" you mean incomptetent people with neither the inclination nor the skills to solve a problem then you are probably right, in that they are on the increase.

This is probably financially driven. Employers want skilled people for less expenditure.

You pay peanuts.......

 

[Eric Nelson]

Started out in Field service as a mechanic

I think this is key. If you 'start out' as a programmer, then you never get to see what everyone else has to deal with, and therefore write programs that ONLY make the machine operate (AKA a lousy program)...

I think Jimmie_Ohio's comments were spot on!...



-Eric

 

[chief weegum]

Engineers signature at the buttom of a drawing is ING: mister X

You know what is meen ING?

Intelligence Not Garanted.

 

[Jimmie_Ohio]

Thanks, Eric.

I've been doing this for over 25 years. I started out at the age of thirteen wiring harnesses at my family's control panel shop. (And sweeping the floor, too.)

One other observation about controls engineers...

I have friends who contract mechanical design work similar to how I contract controls work. They could ALWAYS plan their work. I could never do that due to what I cite in my earlier post.

Also, there was always time to make mechanical design changes. The controls engineers can always "do it quick through the PLC". Sounds like a bad bumper sticker, doesn't it?

I've actually had customer's push back start-ups every week for months, then tell me "You need to plan your time better" when they back me up into another project's schedule. Go figure.

 

[tmechanic]

I've actually had customer's push back start-ups every week for months, then tell me "You need to plan your time better" when they back me up into another project's schedule.

As a tech I used to get that all the time during startups " Everythings done all the wiring's in" get to the site and spend 8 hrs a day for 4 days sitting in the office waiting for someone to a) mount the panel, because there is no wall yet b) pull wires, or c) mount the instruments, then It's my fault that I'm on my way to the airport when the first panel is finally ready for check out and they've used up the 40 hrs of startup time that was quoted, but I couldn't go on to some other job that was ready because they're finishing up and I can get right on it.
At least as a tech I could tell them to talk to my boss. It did teach me to document everything and if it's bad enough take pictures to back it up.

 

[Stephen Luft]

If you aren't over your head at any time...how else would you acquire the experience and knowledge?

We hired a tech out of ITT six years ago. The only PLC experience he had was a few minutes on an AB trainer. Gave him a programming project that was way over his head. It took longer than someone with experience, but he acquired the knowledge that became his foundation for programming.

Six years later, he has done countless programming projects, operating system modifications in assmebly code, trouble shooting for customers and is now getting his feet wet in product design. He came in with none of these skills.

The point being that unless you are pushed out of your comfort zone, your knowledge and skills will remain stagnant. So I guess I would say that being over your head is a requirement for anyone looking to advance their skills.

 

[CaseyK]

Being in somewhat over your head is good. When I was first learning PLC's, no one else around me has seen a PLC2 before either. We just didn't know we were buried. But, with no apparent deadline, everything fell into place.

Being "in" is prorably good to an extent. As previously mentioned, it provides a challenge, it is a very good way to learn. I get "in" a lot still on really oddball stuph, that many here might see every day.

BUT AT WHAT POINT do you become accustomed? Many guys doing basic 15-20 I?O programs sttill can't get it down after several years. Some call and are more desperate then some of the student postings that we see.

Since many supervisory people want the program wrote before the equipment is ordered, some things will never change. I have lost track many years ago of the number of machines that the program was wanted up front, and when I would be updating code, mechanics were changinging the machine faster then I could type. Perhaps this is one reason I am a proponent of off the shelf panels, add the program later. Someday I hope to actually make money off that idea.

We see often, the poor guy who is given a project, and his first question ranges from where do you plug the monitor in to the PLC to how do I hook up a three phase motor to an output card.

{\RANT: off].

enough venting for now!

regards.....casey

 

[Stephen Luft]

Casey,

I am curious, what prompted you to do this poll and subsequent post?