EZ touch?

[jsatkanpak]

Touch panels are excellent for changing setpoints. In C-More or LookoutDirect. You can pre-define upper and lower limits for validity testing as well. If you choose to go the LookoutDirect path, then you can store the inputs in a variable in the HMI and run it through equations before sending it back to the PLC as well. This may be possible using Events in the C-More, but like I said earlier -- I don't like 'em much...

 

[steviek]

You know, I just want to express my appreciation for all of the help I've been receiving. Everyone who has replied has been great. I've been to some websites for other matters, and have found some responders to be rude. They'll treat you like an idiot or become disparaging when your only crime is being inexperienced. You have no idea how much I appreciate the professional attitudes here. Thanks guys.

 

[jsatkanpak]

A couple of other thoughts:

The C-More panels have a built-in web interface that will allow you to view static screen captures from a web browser. We use it all the time for monitoring remote processes if we need to "take a look".

The nice thing about using LookoutDirect with VNC is that you get real-time data updates -- not static -- and can take control or make modifications to the process online if necessary. You should be careful to disable inputs in VNC if you're just wanting to View the screen though...

 

[jsatkanpak]

To make you feel better about what you can do with the C-more, here's an example of the web-capture function from one of the panels I built (again, the image is static, but it's still a great way to view data remotely):

 

[jsatkanpak]

And now that I look at it, there's a "funky" temperature display there... We just did a firmware update a few minutes ago and so it looks like I get to do some "exploring" now...

 

[keithkyll]

Have you used touch panels for changing set points etc? I'm looking at RF, MFC, APC setpoints and indication from the touch panel ...

Absolutely! That's one of the HMI's primary functions.
Use the HMI for all of your variables - don't put any fixed numbers in the PLC. You can have multiple screens, so use one for Engineering parameters (MFC range, etc.), another for operator parameters (timers, etc.).
RF generator max power, Baratron range, MFC range, etc. Use these max numbers for scaling.
I typically only have 2 or 3 fixed numbers in the ladder. With all variables accessable through the HMI, most of the fine tweaking of the final program is done without having to edit ladder code.
There is a point where too many numbers can slow down the operation of the HMI, because it is constantly reading/writing the entire variable list. I think you have to have hundreds (or maybe thousands?) of numbers before you see a problem.

Anybody want to comment on polling speed of the C'more with a DL06? With today's CPU's, is it even a consideration?

 

[jsatkanpak]

Keith,

I know that all of the 200-series plcs only have a 2ms timeslice that all communication gets assigned through, which can result in some bottleknecking. That said, we've got 3 LookoutDirect stations with tags maxed on at least one plus a C-More, an ERM communicating Modbus/TCP to DeviceNET thorugh a protocol converter, plus 7 racks of I/O running through another ERM and three more remote racks running over Remote I/O -- all running against a DL260 and the system is very usable. I believe the 06 uses the same architecture, so unless you're even crazier than us, you shouldn't have any issues.

 

[steviek]

wow! A lot of what James said went right over my head. It sounds like a pretty complicated process. I don't think I'll have any more than 6 analog I/O' and maybe 8 to 10 digital. A pretty small operation.

I'm really impressed with the amount of detail shown in the screen capture! How much more expensive is c-more than ez?

James brought to fore another concern, and that's com protocols, which I know next to nothing about. Are protocal converters specific, like Hex to BCD only, or can you use them sort of like a Star Trek universal translator where you can get all the peripherals speaking one language to the PLC?

I'm not too worried about scan speed. We're running the process by hand right now, pushing on and off buttons and cranking on valves, nothing that has to be done in ms. If operations can take place in 5 to 10 seconds for process control, that's fine.

 

[jsatkanpak]

Don't get too worked up about the protocols. If you use Ethernet and know how to set up an IP address you're all set. You can configure the C-More over Enet and have it communicate with the PLC the same way. And setting up an AutomationDirect PLC on Ethernet is EASY. Just open the DirectSoft5 software and it will find every A/D PLC on the subnet, regardless of proper IP address setting -- you can thet set the modules up how you want.

You shouldn't need any protocol converters or anything for what you're doing. I was just giving Keith an idea of how hard we've hammered some of our A/D processors with good results.

Putting together the screen I uploaded took me about two days, but it links to 9 other "screens" that get called up by the Pushbuttons you can see in the shot.

C-More and EZ are going to be very price-competitive. We just use the C-More because we like it better.

Don't Panic.

As you pointed out, there are a ton of folks here who are eager to help. Do some investigating, ask some questions -- you'll get there.

 

[jsatkanpak]

Regarding your Universal Translator question -- we just use them to get around some proprietary technology issues. We prefer the AutomationDirect PLCs, when suitable for a processing/memory standpoint, because they are SO inexpensive. They are still rock-solid machines.

However, by using something like an Anybus gateway (http://www.anybus.com/applications/semi_net.shtml) we can get an AutomationDirect PLC to communicate with DeviceNet components without spending the $$$ on AB equipment.

It's allowed us to do a LOT more automation projects than a company our size would normally be able to afford.

 

[Joe Boxer]

You know, I just want to express my appreciation for all of the help I've been receiving. Everyone who has replied has been great. I've been to some websites for other matters, and have found some responders to be rude. They'll treat you like an idiot or become disparaging when your only crime is being inexperienced. You have no idea how much I appreciate the professional attitudes here. Thanks guys.

Just to let you know I was were your at 10+ some years ago. I was lucky enough to have coworkers who was great at helping. That was with Allen Bradley plcs. which I thought they were the best except when it came to the price.

then several years later discovered Automation Direct Have been a fan of theirs ever since, plus it didn't hurt that the sales rep. was very hot, and she would always bring me cookies or take me out to lunch when she paid a visit.

Well back to my story, a few years ago my boss called me in to do a job. He wanted to be able to monitor the tank level and then adjust the pump speed accordingly. Well I opened my mouth said sure no problem, then walked out of his office convinced I was totally screwed. Never done any type of analog programming before this.

Well small story is came home got on the computer did as much research I could and then discovered this site. Then within a few weeks had the panel built, after it was installed worked like a dream. I think I more shocked than anyone.

So goes to show you that with a little research anything is possible

 

[alanMICS]

In the same price range is the maple systems silver series panels.
They are not quite as easy to program but have a lot of nice features including an offline simulator, popup windows and portrait mode.
Generally don't need it , but very nice for more complex jobs.

 

[steviek]

Joe, Thanks for the story! It's nice to know someone else has gone out on a limb and has been successful. I at least know logic, and have programmed using boolean symbols, logic gates etc. So I was sure I could do this, it's just a matter of learning RLL.

I don't know if any of you have ever worked with Mitsubishi Alpha PLC's. They're for smaller applications, but they're so simple to program. they have many of the features of the larger PLC's, just not as many I/O's (I think 15 inputs/13 outputs max) The I/O's can be either digital or analog, you don't need special modules. It's pretty much free form, no ladders, you just drag and drop the gates, timers, etc. anywhere you want on the page and draw lines between them. You can also do FBD's. I like them because you can see everything work without having to scroll through pages of ladders, and it has a good simulator. The only problem is you can't do HMI with it. RLL seems a little more cumbersome to me, but I'm sure it's just a matter of getting used to it.

 

[jsatkanpak]

RLL isn't bad. If you can read a wiring diagram and understand what addressing is, you can use RLL. Scrolling through pages of ladder can be a hassle, but breaking up your program into Stages (in AutomationDirect) or files (in AB) makes it a lot easier to manage.