FTView to Ignition

[creativepaper]

I have a large plant (50 clients) with an old version of Rockwell FTView SE.
The support contract to upgrade to the newest version is astronomical, so bosses ask for alternatives.
How is ignition?
The purchase cost is lower than my support contract.
From what I understand, I'll have to recreate all my screens from scratch.

Pro's and cons?

 

[TWS]

Ignition what we use. Have been for over 10 years
Cost is 20K support is about 20% of the initial purchase price. There are higher levels of support. There are additional modules such as MES for additional costs.
The website will give you all the information you need.
There are things you can do to automate screen development. My advice is develop your application in parallel without touching the FT View SE.
You can download a full version for free that will run for 2 hours at a time. You just need to restart the application.

 

[the_msp]

https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/better-than-ignition-any-scada/17215

 

[Ken Roach]

Cons:

• Engineering cost to re-create all screens and databases
• Engineering cost to re-write all scripts in Python instead of VBA
• No tight integration of FactoryTalk services with PLCs, including tag database browsing and updates.
• Risk of delays and bugs when new controllers and firmware become available.
• Risk of Java Web-Launch deprecation or obsolescence
• Some C-language Python libraries unavailable
• Diversity of applications and tools for embedded applications, if you use PanelView+.

Pros: Nearly Everything Else

• Powerful and easy Python scripting.
• Superior SQL database integration
• Flexible and scalable graphics
• Less client installation support / maintenance
• Competitive cost for licensing and support in this scope / size of project

 

[ASF]

Cons:

• Engineering cost to re-create all screens and databases
• Engineering cost to re-write all scripts in Python instead of VBA
• No tight integration of FactoryTalk services with PLCs, including tag database browsing and updates.
• Risk of delays and bugs when new controllers and firmware become available.
• Risk of Java Web-Launch deprecation or obsolescence
• Some C-language Python libraries unavailable
• Diversity of applications and tools for embedded applications, if you use PanelView+.

Pros: Nearly Everything Else

• Powerful and easy Python scripting.
• Superior SQL database integration
• Flexible and scalable graphics
• Less client installation support / maintenance
• Competitive cost for licensing and support in this scope / size of project

This is a fantastic summary and I am unashamedly stealing it for use the next time I get asked this question.

Risk of Java Web-Launch deprecation or obsolescence

I believe that this risk is no longer relevant if you're using the new Perspective module, as it's all based on HTML5? Of course, that does bring up the caveat that Perspective is not yet as fully featured as the more mature Vision module, but it's progressing extraordinarily fast, I don't suppose that will be a significant issue for very long.

 

[cyoung120]

Ignition the whole way. Watch the videos that show how to make Data Types and templates, your development time will decrease dramatically.

 

[Phrog30]

No tight integration of FactoryTalk services with PLCs, including tag database browsing and updates.

Ken, please explain more on this. You can already browse tags and it's possible to get attributes from most controllers. Maybe it wasn't like this last time you used it.

For the OP, development will be a factor, but there is no comparison between FTView and Ignition. Ignition is better all around.

 

[Ken Roach]

Despite its slow speed and ugly interface, FactoryTalk Linx is very good at detecting changes to the tag database or edits to the memory allocation and re-negotiating optimized data exchange. I like that it can browse an *offline* file too, which is more important during development than during operation.

Ignition has likely gotten better, but it's still not as good as FactoryTalk, especially when changes are made to firmware or new devices are introduced. There's just a built-in advantage to having your software and firmware developed and tested by the same company, an advantage Rockwell squandered in 2003-2008 but has regained.

I don't have experience with Perspective, but I also don't think that HTML5 won't eventually be thought of in the same category as Javabeans and Silverlight. This very week I had to spent a couple of days getting Windows 10 set up just to access a decade-old POINT I/O adapter and a Hirschmann RailSwitch because of their Java features.

I might be a little grumpy today because I'm doing a boring FactoryTalk View ME application, and I barely slept last night because of the windstorm. I also forgot that dogs get seasick and I've got to go launder some sheets.

 

[L33er]

Ignition is now way overpriced.

 

[Nebul0us]

I might be a little grumpy today because I'm doing a boring FactoryTalk View ME application, and I barely slept last night because of the windstorm. I also forgot that dogs get seasick and I've got to go launder some sheets.

Ken are you on a boat?

 

[VAN]

Ignition is now way overpriced.

What is it now?

I was always annoyed they didn't have a home version of the license... because I want to automate a house one day (that can be converted back to normal). I just think it would be fun to data mine my home life.

As for the verse, Ignition is really powerful (I was on v7.8 maybe v7.9) but it was still SCADA so users could see screens all over the plant (which is good and bad, potentially).

I used straight Ignition on several projects and honestly, I'd still push to only use Ignition when possible.

As for not seeing a tag change very fast, I think that is a problem across all SCADA/Historians. I think FTME/FTSE trending sucks and will always suck. It works for awhile and then inevitably messes up. Like, a PLC was pushing its limits on memory and trending stopped working... WTF

 

[tom_stalcup]

Ken are you on a boat?

Or that's one hell of a windstorm!

 

[Nebul0us]

What is it now?

I was always annoyed they didn't have a home version of the license... because I want to automate a house one day (that can be converted back to normal). I just think it would be fun to data mine my home life.

They do. It's called Ignition Maker Edition and is free.

 

[VAN]

They do. It's called Ignition Maker Edition and is free.

Awesome, I'll check it out if it doesn't need a manual reset.

 

[ASF]

Awesome, I'll check it out if it doesn't need a manual reset.

It doesn't. Its going to find its way into my house as soon as the new Mac Minis are released