Get no data from TSX Momentum with Concept

[TJS]

I am new to TSX Momentum plcs and just need to find out what is wrong with 2 systems. The run lights are out and power cycling does not bring them up running.

I acquired a laptop with Concept2.5 made a RJ11 to 9pin cable per the tech notes. I hook up and try to connect to rack001, and the comm lights blink a little then Concept just shows nothing, all menu items grayed out except creat new project. Racks 002, etc all give an error, so I think its rack 001.

Does this sound like the cpu is toast? Or what do I have to do to actually see what is in the plc currently? All I want to do is set it to Run again! Its a 171 CCS 760 00 on a ?171 AMM 090000 base with a battery backup unit on the left side.
Thanks

 

[Tom Jenkins]

I've had a Momemtum go AWOL like that. In my case I had to reload the executive files, and then reload the logic. It's been running for a year or so since without a hitch. Try checking the PLC with the EXECloader and see what files it has.

 

[TJS]

I am new to Schneider (I'm a AB Siemens guy). I will need to do some learning about the Execloader, like what its for?

One of my coworkers said that the Momentums were very low temperature sensitive, and they had to "whack" the cpu on the table (not too hard) to nudge some internal connections a little, and get things running again, while they waited for replacements cpus. Don't know if this is a similar problem (unit is outdoors and its been cold lately)

 

[Tom Jenkins]

One of my coworkers said that the Momentums were very low temperature sensitive, and they had to "whack" the cpu on the table (not too hard) to nudge some internal connections a little, and get things running again, while they waited for replacements cpus.

I think they are pimping the new guy! I confess to occasionally whacking a PLC, but I've never deluded myself into thinking I was doing more than reducing my adrenelin level. (OK, maybe ONCE there was a cold solder joint that made contact, but statisticly .......)

The EXECloader is a separate program that ships with Concept. It allows you to download various "operating systems" to the PLC, adding new features and accommodating various programming types - IEC vs 984 ladder, for example. You can use it to determine what version of the "executive" or operating system files reside in the PLC.

Before you start, make sure you contact your distributor and that you know the file name of the proper exec and have it on your PC. I have never quite figured out the Modicon code for the various file names, and downloading the wrong exec file will result in very strange operation.

 

[Jim Dungar]

Are you sure you are communicating?
You must include the correct jumpers on both the RJ45 (not RJ11) and the 9 pin sub-D connector. The default values for the Momentum processor port is 9600 8 E 1, but these are also the defaults for Concept.

Is your software package working?
When Concept opens your normal choices are File-Open, File-New, or Online-Connect. When you are able to go online you are then given a choice of downloading a new application to the PLC or accessing the On-Line Control Panel. If, on startup, your Concept software is only giving the choice of "create new project" then it may be a demo version. Check your Help-About information.

Like Tom said, all of the Schneider Electric PLC programming packages come with a seperate program for downloading new executives for firmware upgrades. You can also use this program to read the existing firmware information from a processor. There is a seperate readme file in the Concept directory (InfoSRxe.xxx), that lists the current version for each processor. For 2.5 SR1 the 171CCS76000 uses the file M1v203.bin.

 

[TJS]

I might just whack it after the trouble I'm having getting connected, Ha!

When I hook up using a cable I made from the tech note, using the laptop version with jumpers on both ends, only 3 wires connected.
http://www.modicon.com/nRepository/...8a9d2a08e885256f0f003f2045/fp_abstract/4.3208!OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=gif
I believe I'm getting a connection but I think the cpu is wiped clean. I have an authorized 2.5 SR2 version of concept. I looked at the EXEC loader and wa not sure what it was for. I will look into connecting with that instead.

Before connecting its as you said, after the connection its the same menu items active. If I connect to rack 002 i get a connecxt error, on rack 001 no error, comm light blinks, then stops.

Thanks

 

[Jim Dungar]

When using Momentum there is no such thing as racks. There are multiple bases which have induvidual interface modules such as E-net, Modbus Plus, and I/Obus (Interbus-S). You cannot communicate to the interface modules with Concept software. This leaves the processor (which begins with prefix 171C) as the only device compatible with Concept. Your 170CCS76000 has an RJ45 Modbus "programming" port and a 9-pin I/Obus port for talking to additional bases. You also have some type of option adapter (prefix 172) which may have an additional Modbus port.

Concept v2.5 and v2.6 have the ability to allow an application to be uploaded from a processor, but only if permissin was given during the original program download. It sounds like you have either a dead processor or an application that does not alow uploading. In either case you will need the original application code in order to corect any program errors. A truly dead controller will require you to use the EXECLoader utility to change it's firmware to allow the use of Concept software.

But first, a couple of suggestions.

As Tom said, use the EXECLoader to see what firmware is in your processor. Use the Query Device information so you dont' accidentally overwrite anything. It should be M1v203.bin.

If you have the original application, open it and then try to connect or, try creating a new blank project and then connecting (you won't mess up anything unless you download).
When you try to connect do you get a warning like "database is different than controller"?
After you have connected do you get a menu choice of Online-Control panel?

 

[TJS]

OK I need to go to work and try the things you mentioned.
Thanks

 

[TJS]

I went and used the Exec loader to query the plc and here is what I gathered; what do you think?

Execloader ver 1.07

node : 001 momntum:M1/512
properties exec id: 0899
exec version: 0000
state: stopped
memory protection: off
battery: low
plc configured: no


tried to start cpu ... cpu not configured

info from cpu
hardware id (A) 0002
version number 2.03
model no. 171-CCS-7X0-X0
kernel revision 1.03
crash code 0000
description Concept Ver2.5 SR1 03/05/2001

went back and transferred exec from device to savExec.bin 245,760 bytes, took 10 minutes about.

 

[Bitmore]

The EXECloader is a separate program that ships with Concept. It allows you to download various "operating systems" to the PLC

The PLC (out of the box) is in, what we commonly refer to as, "dim aware-ness"
Working with IEC compliant PLC's, you will always have to "flash" them with an operating system, much like loading DOS on an old computer.
Modicon Momentum and AB CLx, are "dumb out of the box"! Some programming features may also need a "firmware flash upgrade" so you can use the software command. Example.... You cannot use the Modicons XMIT command if you didn't buy the firmware upgrade and install it on the PLC! Even more morose is the fact that you can develope a program using that command but if the PLC has not been "upgraded" it will not work, and you get the "ever stupid" exec error!

bitmore...

 

[Tom Jenkins]

Well, you've made progress. You now know that your comm setup is OK, and the PLC is good.

You should contact your local Modican suppler and find out what version of the executive you need to match the programming that you plan to use. For example, you need a different exec for RLL 984 and for IEC programming. Then use Execloader to flash (download) the right executive to the PLC, go to back Concept, and download a simple test program to make sure all is well.

 

[Jim Dungar]

TJS,

Yes you are communicating. But, the error code "cpu not configured" says it all. Your PLC has no memory left. You need to download a new configuration. The configuration will almost always be downloaded with the application program.

The Momentum effectively has three different memories. First is the firmware/executive. Out of the box the Momentum thinks it is 984LL until you download an IEC/Concept executive to it (takes about 10-20min). There is also a non-volatile flash memory for maintaining the application program, you access this from the Online-transfer menus. Finally there is State Ram which is all of the holding register variables (4x registers), these values are battery backed-up by an option module.

So for your next steps.
Open your application file, then go on-line and download it to the processor.
If this does not work, then download the correct IEC firmware file and then your application program.
After downloading the application, transfer it to the flash memory.

 

[TJS]

The first thing would be to get the config/program from the integrator (assuming they still have it!) because the owner doesnt have it. I guess I am pretty spoiled having used only higher level plcs, and DCS systems. These low level config issues are annoying.

I have been doing all this for the educational/experience, and as a courtesy for a neighbor/partner company, but I think I'm going to have to tell them to call the integrator and pay him to fix it. I've got quite a few hours into this (gratis) and now I see the big picture. I figured I could tell them what was wrong pretty easily, at least turn the cpus back to run!

Thanks for all you help. Maybe I'll score some hardware to practice on a little off the clock.