rsdoran said:
I have an attitude all the time. If I say it here I would not hesitate to say it in the "real world".
It's not what you say but how you say it. Things can be easily misinterpreted on a message board. Besides, I really didn't think any of your posts on this subject were rude nor did I accuse you of it. I actually find your posts on this board very informative.
rsdoran said:
I know the difference between a "cracker" and a "hacker", search old threads on the subject.
Hackers create, that is ever so true, but the creation is normally to devise methods to enhance security not reinvent the wheel.
Hackers don't just work on networks. Look at KDE and Gnome. Many said that Gnome was a waste of time because we alrady had KDE. I say Gnome gave me a choice.
Also when dealing with a closed system sometimes you have to reinvent the wheel because no one knows how the first one was made.
rsdoran said:
I am not sure any costs would be associated with using the products mentioned, this was never researched as far as I know so why is it "assumed" that there would be?
Its not just assumed. Normally when commercial software is installed on more than one machine additional licesnses have to be purchased. I don't actually know the cost per license for RSView but I'm sure AB doesn't give it away.
rsdoran said:
If you can read a network then you can write to the network. If something is created that can interpret the "data" then it could also be expanded to intercept and write.
Agreed. But Jarbar said repeatedly that his program would be read only...unless we assumed him to be lying.
rsdoran said:
Peter offered options to do it, this did mention "costs" and "development time" associated with it.
Yes he did. The costs is for his companys managment to decide on. All he wanted was information.
rsdoran said:
That was my point, noone was rude in the beginning but was "rudely accused" of it. If you read all the replies then you will see that devil nor idiot was ever stated, the fact is that a reply was made accusing people of a lie, which is RUDE.
You pulled that quote from a message to someone else who was most definately being rude. That was not directed at you Ron.
rsdoran said:
My statement "Technically if you are IT then you SHOULD BE a HACKER or you are not good at your job." was considered rude, offensive or an insult by the poster then he is not what he claims to be.
Again, that was from the another message by someone else. I made no comment on that remark when it came from you. I actually agree with you 110% on that statement. However, the other poster did retype it wrong and it didn't come out right.
rsdoran said:
How many times have you run across software or add-on programs that were undocumented etc but something happened and "management" needed it NOW. I am not sure "individual" creativity should be done in an industrial environment, thats why so many companies spend so much money on "off the shelf" well documented and supported hardware and software. I especially did not think their was a need to "create" when the tools/software was readily available.
Actually I haven't. But I'm sure it happens. I guess the closest thing I could some up with was when one of our platforms ran on a Fisher ROC that was giving us problems and none of our IE guys could do anything with it because it wasn't ladder logic. We had to call out the original programmer.
I see your point though. But again thats a managment decision, not ours.
rsdoran said:
Technically the whole idea did not make sense to me, it would be along the same lines as "creating" a new programming software package for the SLC500 when you already have RSLogix500.
I really wish someone would. Then I wouldn't have to run RSLogix in a windows emulator. What if I want to run my shop with MACs ? This will be a project for me eventually...when I'm good enough.
Someone did do this for the PLC-5. Its called TOPDOC from the
SoftPLC Corporation. Its written in Java so it's cross platform.
rsdoran said:
I have no reason to be paranoid but let me provide a what if;
What IF scenario: Someone gets fired from a company and ticked off about it, but had access to aspects of a network..ie gateways, IP's, passwords etc. This person has accessed data but can not interpret it...
This is always a risk even with the setup they have now. If any of their SCADA terminals are connected to the companys network and can be reached from the outside then it is already a risk. Our platform SCADA can be reached from our main office onshore. It's a closed network but can be accessed from the outside by some.
rsdoran said:
You can justify it any way you want but sometimes if it doesnt sound right it just is not.
I'm not trying to justify anything but the sharing of information. I'm an idealists. I'll admit to that.
rsdoran said:
Fact is there are differences in approaches and ideas used in many fields. I still think an intelligent "programmer type" would be able to look at existing software information and manuals and determine a method to accomplish what needs to be done...Learning more about the PLC's and programming aspects could be more beneficial to him and the company.
I'm sure he's doing well with that.
A couple of years ago I wrote an Excel VBA app to solve well tests and manage well test information. I am not in IT. I am a platform operator. Anyway, when I gave the first presentation on the program our automation foreman asked me why I didn't do it in Access. I wasn't that familiar with Access but Excel I knew pretty well. Also, I like the number crunching ease in Excel, ability to reformat the sheets for different setups, etc. Access would have made the storing of data easier but overall I felt I did a better job using Excel. I had my reasons.
Of course it wasn't that big a deal. I worked on the program during slow days and in my own time. I gave it to the company (actually to the operators to make their job easier).
My point here is that everyone has their reasons for wanting to do somthing a certain way weather we agree with them or not.
rsdoran said:
This is my opinion for what it is worth.
Everyones opinion has worth Ron. I hope you do not consider this an argument.
Thanks,
Mike