Interesting conversation about migration with Rockwell yesterday

[OkiePC]

1) SLC processors will be going away much sooner than I expected. The 1747-ASB silver end date is already set for Jan. 2013. The SLC cpu's will start showing up on that list very soon from what we were told. I think he gave the impression that within two years the processors would all have a silver end date and would probably only be available for another year or two after that. The main reason given is difficulty sourcing components. 1747-I/O in general, is not expected to be a major problem.

2) There is a nice migration path for PLC-5 with the swingarm adapters. which takes up about the same panel space except may be about an inch increase in depth.

3) The PanelView standard will probably vanish by Christmas from new stock. He said all of them. He said their projections may cause them to be sold out sooner because they are already being horded more than anticipated. He showed a special concern for DeviceNet versions (we have none of those).

When I told them about how many we use, he naturally inquired about my plans for migration, and I got a nice reaction from him when I told him it would be Red Lion. He asked why I wouldn't consider the PV+6 and I said 'When you can give me free software that I can download, install, and start in less than a minute and runs reliably, a hardware HMI that boots and controls my machines in 7 seconds (we lock them out multiple times per shift) and one which can communicate with hundreds of different devices, and costs about half as much, then we can think about comparing the rest of the features.' He was happy to hear this and asked for my contact info to put me in touch with some folks in Ohio. He said they have been telling their designers all of these things and would like for them to hear it from more customers.

Also, he said, if we plan to use 3rd party hardware communication, it will be more and more important in the future to ensure driver compatibility. This is mainly because they will be making changes to improve security (stuxnet in the news?). So, a Red Lion G3 that works with version 19 of a Logix controller may not work with version 21, and that it will be important to verify this every time we need to upgrade firmware versions in controllers. Hopefully, the Red Lion staff will be on top of this and stay there. Hopefully, Rockwell will not use this as a tool to kill off competition.

4) Version 20 of RSLogix5000 will be a "line in the sand" such that it will be the last version to support a 32 bit OS. It will be updated for a long time but for major new features version 21 and newer will be required and a 64 bit Windows 7 (or 8?) OS.

The fellow who visited was extremely helpful and very informative and spent several hours with us, even buying a nice lunch to boot. He did an excellent job of answering our questions as clearly as possible.

We only have about 60 SLCs, one critical PLC-5, and about 20 or so PV standards. So, it looks like I will find no shortage of interesting projects over the next several years.

 

[bce123]

Sounds like AB is doing their part in boosting the economy. Increase spending creates jobs and stimulates the economy so everyone pitch in and open up your wallets to help AB in this endeavor. GOD BLESS THE AMERICAN WAY!!!!!

 

[Saffa]

Our local AB rep has been hinting at the same (although no dates given). He mentioned they have a new nifty card which replaces the SLC processor but lets you keep your I/O and then use a compactlogix processor instead, with the SLC's I/O as remote I/O(I think - fuzzy about the details). I may have got it all wrong, as per usual was just about to leave the office when the rep rolled in with no prior phone call for a big ol' chat...

No idea how you would go about converting the program to RSLogix5000 etc, haven't had to give that a go yet.

Not that useful for us as our SLC systems are typically quite small, just as easy to rip the whole thing out and start again with a CompactLogix (or, dare I say it, something else...).

 

[JesperMP]

He mentioned they have a new nifty card which replaces the SLC processor but lets you keep your I/O and then use a compactlogix processor instead, with the SLC's I/O as remote I/O(I think - fuzzy about the details).

The 1747-AENTR will cost 1800 USD. To my opinion, way too expensive.
I also find that ABs new product portfolio is way too atomised into a myriad of hardware and software solutions.
Where is the single all-encompasing PLC solution to rule them all ?

 

[Oakley]

In addition to the RSLogix5000 V20 being the last on 32bit architecture, it is also the last version supporting L6x series ControlLogix processors.

 

[Saffa]

The 1747-AENTR will cost 1800 USD. To my opinion, way too expensive.
I also find that ABs new product portfolio is way too atomised into a myriad of hardware and software solutions.
Where is the single all-encompasing PLC solution to rule them all ?

It's probably not too bad compared to having to replace 5 to 7 I/O modules as well. Of course those will also one day become obsolete,so when one dies you'll be a little stuck. I think the 1747-AENTR just buys a little breathing space, but ideally plants should be looking at budgeting now for slowly replacing their SLCs over the coming years. If you had 5 of them and did one a year, your risk decreases each year - you end up with valuable spare parts as you go!

A roaring trade in second hand SLC parts will likely spring up in the new couple of years...

 

[Brijm]

The 1747-AENTR will cost 1800 USD. To my opinion, way too expensive.
I also find that ABs new product portfolio is way too atomised into a myriad of hardware and software solutions.
Where is the single all-encompasing PLC solution to rule them all ?

I was thinking the same for some of the new products. I fear that some of them, might not be around that long.

 

[Tom Jenkins]

Business Opportunity Alert

A roaring trade in second hand SLC parts will likely spring up in the new couple of years...

With the huge installed base of SLC PLCs out there I would think a third party that sells reconditioned and/or reverse engineered replacement parts would make a killing for the nex ten years or so.

 

[bce123]

With the huge installed base of SLC PLCs out there I would think a third party that sells reconditioned and/or reverse engineered replacement parts would make a killing for the next ten years or so.

I don't believe that AB will phase the I/O out for quite some time. IMO this is a marketing ploy to sell new hardware (1747-AENTR ) and software(logix 5000). This should boost sales and increase, and along with new com (security) protocols, costumer dependency.

 

[bkottaras]

With the huge installed base of SLC PLCs out there I would think a third party that sells reconditioned and/or reverse engineered replacement parts would make a killing for the nex ten years or so.

+1.
You'll be surprised to find out how many units are out there today still shifting bits 24/7.
There's no particular reason to upgrade if you are a small or medium size company as these have been robust systems for years except that now you are Forced to do so by Rockwell.

 

[OkiePC]

I think Rockwell does a pretty good job of keeping their products available for a very long time, all things considered. I also think they do a good job of letting us know well in advance of retiring these old products. The prices, well, they are sort of ridiculous.

If there was a DeviceNet module for the Productivity 3000, I think we would seriously consider it. Most of our larger SLC installations have relatively large DeviceNet networks to Powerflex drives, so whichever migration path we take needs to account for those.

 

[jkerekes]

No one is forcing you to do anything. Rockwell supports its products for a much longer period than most other automation and software companies. But at some time it makes sense to move on. The pricing of the new CompactLogix stuff in many cases is cheaper than the SLC stuff, and does much more.

 

[bkottaras]

No one is forcing you to do anything. Rockwell supports its products for a much longer period than most other automation and software companies. But at some time it makes sense to move on. The pricing of the new CompactLogix stuff in many cases is cheaper than the SLC stuff, and does much more.

The Compact series is definetely cheaper than some SLC series CPUs.
No doubt you can do a lot more with the newer hardware.
No one is forcing me to do anything just the smaller outfits don't see it as a "must" and it is hard to persuade them to migrate right now.

 

[jkerekes]

Well in this economy, you need a good business reason to do anything. Years ago, when everything was going good in manufacturing, it was easier to justify upgrades. But there's no reason to panic. Rockwell, I'm sure makes good money on these products, and is happy to sell them to you. They'll be SLC parts available for years to come. People are still using PLC2s, PLC3s, ControlView, AdvisorPC etc.

 

[Old No. 7]

Interesting indeed. I had concern over quoting a SLC based system to a customer so I asked my Rockwell guy about how long the SLC's would be around. He said until 2020. Here's the text of the letter I got from Rockwell to confirm.

Rockwell Automation appreciates your on-going investment in SLC 500/1746 I/O products and we want to assure you that we intend to protect that investment.

For almost two decades, we have expanded the product offering and added features to meet your needs. Along with legendary reliability, protecting our customers’ automation investments is why manufacturers have selected nearly 1.6 million SLC controllers and over 12 million 1746 I/O modules to run their industrial processes.

As market needs have evolved, and available technology improved, we continuously expand the CompactLogix control platform with expanded capabilities and new, more powerful MicroLogix controllers. These new controllers address the needs of the small to mid-size PLC market. Many SLC 500 customers have chosen to migrate to our newer platforms for their newer machines and installations based on our recommendations.

For those customers who choose to continue to use SLC 500, we expect to manufacture and sell this platform throughout this decade. Nonetheless, over time, some products may be inactivated due to component obsolescence, manufacturing or technology issues. As these issues arise, and where no practical solution exists, we will make every effort to place these products into Silver Series, to give you advance notice and time to plan for migration. In addition, once removed from general sale, we plan to provide service and support for SLC 500/1746 I/O products for many years, so long as components and the applicable technologies are available.

Finally, in order to help you plan and mitigate the time and cost of migrating from SLC 500/1746 I/O to the CompactLogix control platform, we will continue to develop migration tools to aid in this process.

I hope that this correspondence provides you with understanding of Rockwell Automation’s commitment to providing quality automation products and our commitment to the SLC 500/1746 I/O product lines.

Now they give themselves an out with the line about "component obsolescence", but he sure made it sound like we wouldn't have any issues (other than price) for 7-8 more years.