Lock out Tag Out, (not really a PLC question)

[LStewart]

Thank you all for all of your responses. What started this was I was describing this forum to a coworker that used to be a maint. elec tech and was just promoted to safety director ...helper? Anyway... having been in maintenance he is having difficulty helping our new director to understand that there are circumstances where you HAVE to have power enabled. I think she is scared of liability and instead of assessing the different situations, she just makes a blanket decision not to allow any power on. Which really bit her...she had decreed that anyone caught working on equipment w/o loto could be terminated, next day....machine down....can't be worked on w/o power, air..maintenance refused to repair for fear of losing job...platform manager and plant manager overruled her on that occasion. I was just trying to find something that would help her and us and our facility. Ya'll sure have been helpful. Have a good one!!

 

[darrenj]

Live parts to which an employee might be exposed shall be put into an electrically safe work condition before an employee works on or near them, unless the employer can demonstrate that deenergizing introduces additional or increased hazards or is infeasible due to equipment design or operational limitations. Energized parts that operate at less than 50 volts to ground shall not be not required to be deenergized if there will be no increased exposure to electrical burns or to explosion due to electric arcs.


The kicker of the above code is the "unless the employer can demonstrate that deenergizing introduces additional or increased hazards or is infeasible due to equipment design or operational limitations"

All plants used to say shutting the machine down interfers with production..This is bull all equiptment can be shut down if the need arises..some plant managers just need to be told that!

However most plants i work in now have a strict lockout procedure..a compressor i was working on was locked out by myself and a maintinace worker..when i was ready to turn it on he was off on his 7 day stretch..It took 4 hours to get a hold of him and about a billion pages of paperwork before we could remove his lock to turn the equiptment back on..I was frustrated at the time but looking back its a good thing...

Ron..I have seen and used the em.stop lockout before..It used to be considered acceptable here but no more..as someone stated it's o.k. for somethings but if i have my hands in a machine it gets locked out at the disconect, Note for newbies!!! NEVER trust a control device to stop or lockout a machine!!!

If anyone is interested i can post an editied version of our lockout procedure..(Names will be changed to protect the innocent!!)

 

[rsdoran]

Ron..I have seen and used the em.stop lockout before..It used to be considered acceptable here but no more..as someone stated it's o.k. for somethings but if i have my hands in a machine it gets locked out at the disconect, Note for newbies!!! NEVER trust a control device to stop or lockout a machine!!!

I am not stating they ARE a lockout, just a means to prevent activation of the system while you are investigating any problems. Its does not deenergize a machine which is what lockout does but it offer more than tag out which is also allowed. Only TRAINING can state when what is used.

Recently I did some work in a plant that used extruders. The MCC room was a good distance from the extruders, so to prevent attempts to start etc while walking to MCC room or while in panel in MCC room we locked out the ESTOP. There was no disconnect on the machine so the only preventative measure to insure machine could not be started was to lock the ESTOP.

In any situation where we had to "repair" the machine...ie replace belts, unpack screw etc we locked out the ESTOP first then went to MCC room and locked out panel.

In other situations the problem may not require physically working on the motion aspects of the system, could be number of things like a gate sticking, oven problem, etc where we didnt want machine operable but didnt need to do a lockout.

Thats why I suggest that people obtain professional training for ALL aspects of safety not just LOTO. If any company threatens to fire for troubleshooting a machine that isnt locked out does not have people qualified to be safety coordinator. There are practical and well documented procedures that may be used for all safety applications. Any company that uses a safety coordinator should make sure that person is FULLY trained on the subject and implements a SAFETY PLAN. The plan should include topics on:
Electrical Safety...LOTO and more
Hot Work ..even if its just contractors that do it.
Confined space ....if applicable in any way
Forklift...believe it or not forklift incidents outrank others.
Bloodborne pathogens
Hazardous material...MSDS, chemicals, toxics, fireproofing etc
PPE Personal Protective Equipment

AND all personnel should be trained on safety issues where applicable....maintenance on all of them.

I have taken alot of training. I have also been qualified to train others on safety issues. I am a firm believer in following a documented and proven safe procedure whether its operating, troubleshooting or working on machinery.

There are just so many issues with Safety that it REQUIRES indepth training on a continuous basis with written procedures to insure that everyone involved understands what is happening and should be done.

The subject is just to "indepth" to give a proper answer on a forum like this. The simple answer is YES you can "troubleshoot" without locking out the machine. The "real" answer is your company needs to implement a safety program using people that are capable and qualified to train everyone....everyone means management too.