Maximum number of 1734 Safety Point IO to L36ERMS

g.mccormick

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I have an existing Compact Gaurdlogix PLC with exising PointIO on it (Some safety and some standard). We will be adding a new panel with more PointIO (Most safety with few standard). The safety IO is both Discrete and Analog (IB8S, OB8s, IE4S) for both the existing and the planned new panel. How do I figure out the maximum moduels that I can connect to the L36? The exising AENTR has 20 moduels on it, yet in playing around in Integrated Architecture Builder, it wont seem to put more than 10 modules on an AENTR.
 
Adapter is limited to 20 connections and each safety module uses 2 connections.
I believe there is a way to set safety input modules to use 1 connection, but it was long time ago since I did it.
 
I could be off here but from what I am seeing in IAB, the 1769-L36ERMS is good for 256 CIP connections. Like mentioned each saftey IO counts as 2. I think one would just add up all the cards and standard non saftey =1 CIP connection and saftey cards =2, subtract from your 256 the AENTR's does not seem to count as a connect. Just a guess, could be wrong.
 
I was under the impression that "Rack Optimized" would make it so that the discrete input and discrete output data would be 1 connection each. I believe the analog modules cannot be rack optimized and would then take up 2 connections each. Is it correct that only "IO" messages count in that 256? Does explicit messages (from HMI and from MSG messages from other controllers) not count in?
 
Hmm don't know Daba seems to go into decent detail about CIP connections here. I am still reading it atm.

http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=114282

edit: so yeah after reading that thread my add and subtract idea is out the window by "explicit messaging"

still 256 is a decent buffer, I do not see how you managed a combo of safety and standard IO up to 20 on your AENTR that is in the existing cabinet.

2nd EDIT: As a side note playing around in IAB some more, I managed to get a warning for Com Utilization on the 1769-L36ERMS. I have nothing on the PLC only 2x AENTR w/ 10 OB8S on each, says I am 72% of capacity! It looks like ea. OB8S uses around 4% of com capacity, might be something to watch out for as well.
 
Last edited:
Safety I/O can't use Rack connection, it's always direct connection.
I think Point Analog can use Rack connection with relatively recent firmware.
 
It just so happens I've been down this exact rabbit hole before. There are a few pieces to this puzzle.

The number of CIP connections are no longer really* a factor on the 5370 Compact Logix platform. Instead, you are limited by "nodes". Each device in your ethernet tree is a node. The 1769-L36ERMS supports 48 nodes, so in theory you could have 48 racks of 1734 safety I/O hooked up. Of course, that assumes you don't need anything else at all in your ethernet tree.

(*the number of nodes isn't really a factor because they now support such a large number of CIP connections that you're extremely unlikely to hit that limit before you hit the node limit for your particular controller. However it may theoretically still be possible, particularly if you had a very large number of safety I/O modules in the picture. Refer to the first technote linked below, and my comments on using IAB at the end of this post)

There is, however, a limit to the number of CIP connections you can made to a 1734-AENT itself. A series B 1734-AENT can support 31 CIP connections - but only if the rack only contains standard modules. As soon as you have safety modules on the rack, it drops to a limit of 20 CIP connections. I have no idea why this is the case, but it is.

As others have said, you can only use a rack optimised connection for standard, digital I/O modules. Safety modules (and analogs) require an individual connection per card. So you have to do a bit of math to work out how many connections you need to connect to all the modules on your rack.

Now, a safety output module requires two connections per module. Why? Because you need both input and output data for a safety output module. Output data because (obviously) you need to be able to turn on the outputs, and input data because, in a safety application, you need to read back the status of your output module to make sure the card is healthy and communicating and otherwise OK. So that means you're limited to 10 1734-OB8S modules per 1734 I/O rack.

Input modules, by default, also use two connections - input and output data. Input data because (obviously) you need to be able to read the safety inputs, and check the module status/validity. Output data because you can configure them to use the test pulse outputs as standard outputs or muting outputs, and if you do that, you need to be able to write to those outputs. So by default, you're also limited to 10 1734-IB8S modules per 1734 I/O rack. Of course, there are limited scenarios where you actually need to use the test pules as anything other than actual test pulses - and if you're only using them as test pulses, you don't need output data to the card. So in that case, you can set the module to use input data only, and then it only uses one connection. So in theory, you could use up to 20 1734-IB8S modules on a single 1734 I/O rack.

So you end up having to do a bit of math. You could have a rack with 10x 1734-IB8S with input-only connection (10 connections), 2x 1734-IB8S with input and output connections (another 4 connections), 2x 1734-OB8S (another 4 connections) 1x analog input module (another 1 connection) and 30 standard digital I/O modules (1x rack optimised connection), for a total of 20 connections. That's 20 connections, so to that rack you could add plenty more standard digital I/O modules under the existing rack optimised connection, but zero other modules.

Then there's the matter of bus power. The 1734-AENT provides 1000mA of bus power, and the 1734-AENTR provides 800mA. Safety I/O modules are bus-power hungry - 110mA for each 1734-IB8S and 125mA for each 1734-OB8S (assuming both are series B). So you can only put 9x 1734-IB8S modules on a 1734-AENT, or 7x if you're using a 1734-AENTR. The numbers are smaller again for 1734-OB8S modules. Once you run out of bus power, you need to add a 1734-EP24DC to the rack, which gives you another 1300mA of bus power to play with.

If you think you might be sailing close to the wind, your best bet is to fire up Integrated Architecture Builder and drop in your configuration. It'll tell you how you're tracking, and suggest things you can change if needed. It will flag connection limits within your 1734 rack, bus power limits on your 1734 rack, and both node limits and CIP connection limits on your 1769-L36ERMS.

References:

CompactLogix 5370, 5380 & ControlLogix 5580 Controller Nodes on an Ethernet/IP Network

ID: QA15678 | Access Levels: Everyone

How many Point I/O modules can the 1734-AENT or 1738-AENT support?

ID: IN2188 | Access Levels: Everyone


1734-AENT/R and 1734-IB8S - Number of CIP connections being used
ID: QA8130 | Access Levels: TechConnect


1734-IB8S Module: Reducing the Number of I/O Connections
ID: QA14865 | Access Levels: TechConnect

POINT I/O Power Specifications and Facts
ID: QA3486 | Access Levels: TechConnect

 

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