Modicon 984 385E Modsoft

[sixstringz1]

Hi all,
I have some issues with a Modicon 984-385E on a machine we recently acquired. The unit was operational before it was moved but the genius that "un-wired" it evidently only had side cutters, and labels seem to have been out of the question. I need to see the program to make sense of things. I am not Modicon proficient at all. I have modsoft 2.21 on Win ME (might be an issue?), my cable pinout is correct (per Schneider and other posts). When I try to download the program modsoft runs for a bit then locks up. I get no comm errors but I get NO activity on the modbus LED either. Modsoft seems to be seeing the plc on the Comm port because when cable is unplugged i do get a comm error. Does anyone have any ideas other than I am an idiot(I am already aware of that)??

 

[jstolaruk]

You're no idiot, just trying to resurrect a machine that once the idiot that wielded the wire cutters got done with it, left one hell of a mess for you to try to fix.

When you say "download" do you mean to get the program out of the machine's PLC? How do you know what baud rate to use? (I believe 9600 is the default with Modbus)

 

[sixstringz1]

How about upload the program from the controller to modsoft. I assumed it to be 9600 BAUD, 8 bits, even parity.

 

[jstolaruk]

How about upload the program from the controller to modsoft. I assumed it to be 9600 BAUD, 8 bits, even parity.

Sounds right though I can't remember if parity is none. Any luck with this or is that what your first post describes when using these com port settings?

 

[sixstringz1]

i tried different baud rates and no parity with the same results

 

[TConnolly]

Windows from Win98 on doesn't like to let programs directly access the comm ports, instead the software has to make system calls to the operating system to use the comm ports. However almost all old DOS software would directly control the comm ports. I suspect that is what is happening here.

Do you have a newer computer with WinXP or newer on it? If so then try downloading Dosbox and installing it on that computer. DosBox is a virtual machine that looks and behaves just like DOS. If you aren't familiar with virtual machines don't worry, DosBox is really easy to use and set up. Run ModSoft from within DosBox. DosBox will provide a virtual comm port that looks just like a real comm port to ModSoft. Then DoxBox will pass that through to Windows to the comm port using valid system calls that Windows recognizes.

You might want to see this forum thread http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=42838 and also search google for using modsoft with dosbox, there are discussions on other forums and some youtube videos on how to use dosbox.

 

[jstolaruk]

wow, I wish I could help but my grey matter can't drudge anything up from that long ago.

Here is a link to a manual that may be of help:
http://www.mroelectric.com/pdfs/mro-984.pdf

 

[TConnolly]

If this is a machine that you are going to have to support for some time to come then I suggest you consider purchasing PLC Workshop for Modicon from FasTrak Sotworks. You can download a limited capability demo for free. The software is activated with a USB dongle. Its not great software but its more functional than ModSoft and in the bleak world of 984 programming software this is my first choice.

Proworx32 is another 984 software package available from Schneider but I can't recommend it - the 2.x versions are buggy and difficult to use, it hasn't been updated in years. I use both and have developed an intense dislike Proworx32.

For WindowsME ProworxNXT is a great package, it was a great bit of software before they broke it for Proworx32. You might be able to find someone selling it but be careful that it is legit, you must either get an activation code from Schneider or have a valid transfer code. Should you go that route, then so that you know what is needed to activate it and don't get scammed, a transfer code is generated by installing ProworxNXT on the target computer and getting a code from it. Then you type that code into the source computer that you are transferring the license from and it gives you another code. Then finally you type the third code into the target computer to activate the software.

I found out this morning that I will be exiting the Modicon world in three weeks. WOOT! It will be probably another year (bean-counters:doh2 before we can unload our hardware inventory (12 racks worth) , but it is going to happen.

BTW, Welcome to the forum.

 

[Peter Nachtwey]

I would consider starting over with a modern PLC. 984-385s were crude 20 years ago.

 

[TConnolly]

I have to agree with Peter.

Since the non-electrician that un-wired it (a real electrician would know better) just cut everything you'll waste a lot of time and money sorting it out.

What is the IO count on this? Do you use other PLCs and have software for them and if so what? If this is a one rack 984 system then just getting upgraded to modern programming software might cost you as much as or more than converting to a modern PLC for which you already have software. 984s have been out of production for something like 15 years, and the 984-385 was the family bottom dweller. You can still get used spares because now people (including me) are decommissioning them faster than the demand for spares is diminishing, but that condition is temporary and will reverse. In the near future spares will dry up.

 

[sixstringz1]

I would consider starting over with a modern PLC. 984-385s were crude 20 years ago.

This will likely happen but there is useful info inside this controller that I do not know. I have no schematics or IO prints (company went out of business years ago). I am not real familiar with this type of machine, and this PLC was an after market install in 1989. I am pursuing the advice given by TConnolly and I will let you know next week how it goes! Thanks for the help.

 

[jstolaruk]

Yeah, its worth a medium amount of effort to get the logic out but it will NOT be annotated and without knowing what the I/O points were connected to, its use will be limited.
This is always a problem (at a previous employer) when machines were returned for refurbishing even when knowledgable electricians disconnected it; luckily we had the program and electrical drawings from when it was shipped.

 

[sixstringz1]

120 IO, I will upgrade to AB when I actually know enough about the machine (severe problem) to write the program.

 

[TConnolly]

OK. When you get the program out then be sure and come back. The 984 ladder logic had quite a few quirks that will seem downright insane to programmers who haven't ever been exposed to it before. First time I was exposed to it my first reaction was a big WTF? After you upload be sure to check the Modsoft traffic cop to get the the IO address assignments, its not a slot/address scheme like other PLCs use, you would allocate a chunk of memory to the card and it could be anything. If the system was later expanded then IO addresses won't even be in order. We can help you through it.

 

[sixstringz1]

Ok, got dosbox on xp. No communication through modsoft. I am not even getting modbus led to flash now, just error 199. I have tried two different com ports, using configured com port in dosbox, dummy com port, I dont think dosbox is seeing com ports. I hate life right now!