Need help with career path

[deshNL]

Another observation: I’ve suggested to people to buy some hardware: S7-1200 starter kit, Click , ML1100, Micro 800, whatever interests you. I’ve found most people won’t spend a couple hundred for hands on learning tools but think maybe they might possibly eventually go back to school for thousands of dollars then don’t. Invest in yourself. I’m impressed by someone who plays with automation because it’s exciting, not just a job.

I have a Click PLC but it's the most basic version they offer and doesn't have any bells and whistles. No ethernet, real time clock, battery backup, analog or PID control. I went the cheapest route because the difference between a basic and ethernet model was $100 in my currency. I bought some lights, switches, and an enclosure to house it all in, but I feel I'm really limited when using only digital IO. The whole setup cost me almost $200. When I see some free simulators that allow you to use similar to something high end I wonder if I just wasted my money.


The chepast ML1100 I could find was $350 so almost $400 with the other parts included, which was a bit steep for me at the time.

 

[5618]

Discrete stuff on a Click is basic but it’s a start. At least you’ve started. When you’re ready to expand, two possibilities come to mind for relatively inexpensive next step. You could get a second click and setup communication between them. They will do Modbus RTU over RS232.

I think a better addition would be a Micro 820. That’s different software to learn and it could also communicate with the click RTU on 232. The M820 will also do RS485 but not the same time as RS232 without an expansion module for another port. That opens up possibilities of setting up comms with some cheap RTU device. The M800 line does Lad, ST, and FB.

With two units, you might also think it’s fun to communicate using discrete IO of each parallel, serial, data and clock lines, and so on...

Using just the one you have, a step from here might be to setup Modbus RTU to a Modbus simulator running on a PC. I haven’t done that but I’ve seen it referenced in other threads here. Modbus RTU is relatively common but many controls people haven’t used it. Getting some experience with things like that can boost your marketability.

Also for free, check out Advanced HMI and Ignition Maker Edition. Visualization is another huge part of controls.

 

[PLC Pie Guy]

This is meant to encourage you. A coworker has an IT degree. He never used it much outside an apprenticeship. He started with us as a forklift operator. Then he moved to a packaging machine operator. Next he moved into maintenance at a helper / PM tech level. Now he’s a full mechanic (title, really multi-craft). He asked me about PLC stuff. I gave him my usual answer to start with RS Logix Micro Starter Lite. He was the first one who actually did that and went above and beyond setting up the emulator through a virtual com port to Advanced HMI.

So I gave him a PLC job to replace an old dual pump panel using a ML1100. I gave him logic needs in steps. He’d write some code and I would try to break it and give more steps.

Now I include him in lots of stuff. I have to work to keep ahead or keep up with him. He’s way above me in Visual Studio, Java, etc. I’m slightly above Hello World and learning from him.

I suppose the moral of this story is if you can, find someone already doing this who isn’t too insecure to share. There’s plenty of great people here if you don’t have someone locally. Ask questions that show you’re trying and take action to learn and grow.

Another observation: I’ve suggested to people to buy some hardware: S7-1200 starter kit, Click , ML1100, Micro 800, whatever interests you. I’ve found most people won’t spend a couple hundred for hands on learning tools but think maybe they might possibly eventually go back to school for thousands of dollars then don’t. Invest in yourself. I’m impressed by someone who plays with automation because it’s exciting, not just a job.

Your story of the Forklift operator turned Tech is kind of how I started. I got my course at the Community College for electrical but couldn't find a job. I went to the Hardwood Pulp Plant on the night shift as a production worker. Once I got in I started to apply for internal maintenance positions. As soon as the Electrical Department Head Engineer noticed that I was applying for these jobs and also noticed the electrical course on my resume I was in. He simply came up to me while I was working on the line and said congrats, you start in my dept. Monday morning. No interview, nothing. I did an entire 6 year Industrial Electrical Apprenticeship there! The HR dept. never showed him my resume before I started applying within the company, even though I applied before working there in production. I was only 19 then.


Also, I want to add on your comment about folks not wanting to buy equipment to train on...... In my neck of the woods it seems that the Micro800 line up is coming in on all machines now. I use them widely over the last few years but I'm noticing them everywhere.... This is what you should practice on. Cheap PLC and free software! CCW also gives you a tiny taste of HMI programming as well if you like. Having Micro and CCW, or really anything Rockwell on your resume is an asset as they are the bigger suppliers here in Atlantic Canada! I have yet to see a click PLC anywhere in any machine in my adventures. Its always 99% Allen Bradley stuff.

 

[deshNL]

Also, I want to add on your comment about folks not wanting to buy equipment to train on...... In my neck of the woods it seems that the Micro800 line up is coming in on all machines now. I use them widely over the last few years but I'm noticing them everywhere.... This is what you should practice on. Cheap PLC and free software! CCW also gives you a tiny taste of HMI programming as well if you like. Having Micro and CCW, or really anything Rockwell on your resume is an asset as they are the bigger suppliers here in Atlantic Canada! I have yet to see a click PLC anywhere in any machine in my adventures. Its always 99% Allen Bradley stuff.

I bought a Click PLC because at $100 and free shipping from Automation Direct it was all I could afford. I have yet to see a used Micro800 on EBay for $100 Canadian. There's usually some outrageous shipping and import charges on it coming from the US.


I have a VM on my laptop with Studio 5000 v. 32, Studio 5000 Emulate and FactoryTalk View v.11. I just haven't gotten around to playing with any of those yet as I'm spending my days applying for any job I can find. They're slim around here. Sure we have a few mines and mills here but it's all who you know, and they're not surviving without a cash infusion from the government. I guess the next important thing on my list is making a trip to Ontario to challenge their Industrial Electrician license because I face roadblocks trying to do that here. I was told I don't really need it but that's not what I see on job ads looking specifically for it.

 

[PLCMentor]

Am I missing something??

You are "Ignition Certified, Journeyman Electrician, 2 yr experience in instrument/controls" and you can't find a job?

You need to MOVE! You could probably write your own paycheck hear in the United States.

The problem is that he has done a lot of course work and not any actual projects. Are there electrical contractors where you are that do controls also? That may be a good bet. Your background should get your foot in the door and you get them to agree to get some experience in automation. Once you have experience the degree is not as big of a hurdle. As many have mentioned, you just need that foot in the door opportunity.

 

[Peter Nachtwey]

Be special or unique.

 

[Micoo]

What PLC Pie Guy said

Honestly PLC pie guy has already given you all of the advice that I was going to give you. Just apply everywhere and get your foot in the door somewhere industrial. I was lucky and got a job offer straight out of college to work at an industrial plant for the Irvings and am almost complete of my industrial electrical red seal, then ill be obtaining my instrumentation. Best of luck private message me anytime and I can try and offer advice when needed!

 

[Gret3]

You can start like intern and then step by step growth.

 

[PLC Pie Guy]

I bought a Click PLC because at $100 and free shipping from Automation Direct it was all I could afford. I have yet to see a used Micro800 on EBay for $100 Canadian. There's usually some outrageous shipping and import charges on it coming from the US.


I have a VM on my laptop with Studio 5000 v. 32, Studio 5000 Emulate and FactoryTalk View v.11. I just haven't gotten around to playing with any of those yet as I'm spending my days applying for any job I can find. They're slim around here. Sure we have a few mines and mills here but it's all who you know, and they're not surviving without a cash infusion from the government. I guess the next important thing on my list is making a trip to Ontario to challenge their Industrial Electrician license because I face roadblocks trying to do that here. I was told I don't really need it but that's not what I see on job ads looking specifically for it.

The Industrial ticket is huge huge huge.... It really says something about the type of experience you have.

Also, I really cant stress to you enough how important the Allen Bradley and Rockwell software experience is. You have access to RSL5k or Studio and FactoryTalk View software....... Most would kill for that. Use it... Learn it in your spare time, make time if you have none, anything to get comfortable with it. Its the best asset you have right now. This is the experience that will get you a job.

I even have a couple of books on PDF from a course that I took on RSL5K some years ago. PM me and Ill send it to you if you like. Its the beginner level modules followed by the intermediate level modules. Its a section of text about a particular topic, then labs to follow. You would have to be a bit creative as these were instructor lead training courses, but all the needed information is there.

 

[deshNL]

Honestly PLC pie guy has already given you all of the advice that I was going to give you. Just apply everywhere and get your foot in the door somewhere industrial. I was lucky and got a job offer straight out of college to work at an industrial plant for the Irvings and am almost complete of my industrial electrical red seal, then ill be obtaining my instrumentation. Best of luck private message me anytime and I can try and offer advice when needed!

Don't you think Atlantic Canada is oversaturated with electricians? This is the concensus I'm seeing. I have my construction Red Seal and it might as well be worthless in what I'm trying to accomplish.

 

[PLC Pie Guy]

Don't you think Atlantic Canada is oversaturated with electricians? This is the concensus I'm seeing. I have my construction Red Seal and it might as well be worthless in what I'm trying to accomplish.

I don't believe that for a second. If construction work is what you want in Halifax, call Twin City Electric. There is no better company to work for in the construction sense as an electrician. They are always hiring(especially controls talent).
I hire 2 local construction electrical groups to work for me in the plants. Both are always looking for skilled people. They say the same as I do here trying to hire, Good help is HARD TO FIND. These are both Construction Contractors. Neither of which have a controls person or Industrial person. (I really have to stop saying guys)
Both have asked if I would work for them and leave my job. Both have a hard time staffing ticketed folks that A, show up every day and B, can run a job without constant babysitting. I hold their hands through all the control stuff and advise on wiring practices such as terminating VFD shields, panel terminations and the like. They are getting better. However, it seems that as they go through Electrician after Electrician, my efforts in giving them experience is continuously walking out. I can see the contractor struggling to send us skill and always hunting for new talent.

Furthermore, you looking to be an Industrial Electrician. There really are not that many around, especially looking for work. To a contractor you might not be worth a lot, to an Industrial facility your priceless. As I said before, I have never been unemployed in Nova Scotia as an electrician, Industrial or Construction.

Get your Rockwell experience, do the labs, put it on your resume and apply to every maintenance department in an area that your interested in being in. It does not even have to be an electrical job. Here, not that I agree with it, but most mechanics, or techs, or whatever you want to call them, from every background is expected to try to fix electrical and on machine related control issues while waiting for help to arrive. At least safely gather what information they can so when help does come, they may offer assistance to make the troubleshooting time shorter. Sometimes they make it much worse but.......
I'm just saying, around here, the walk is what is important. Regardless of what piece of paper is in your hand, if you have a resume in to our facility with your experience on it, your at least getting an interview and likely a job. I like to think that we are pretty standard maintenance department for our size company and most operate similarly. Typically, the jobs I have landed, were not even jobs on postings, but more derived from chance applications, relationships built and attitude/skill displayed along the way beginning on a production line piling up board on a night shift.

 

[deshNL]

I don't believe that for a second. If construction work is what you want in Halifax, call Twin City Electric. There is no better company to work for in the construction sense as an electrician. They are always hiring(especially controls talent).
I hire 2 local construction electrical groups to work for me in the plants. Both are always looking for skilled people. They say the same as I do here trying to hire, Good help is HARD TO FIND. These are both Construction Contractors. Neither of which have a controls person or Industrial person. (I really have to stop saying guys)
Both have asked if I would work for them and leave my job. Both have a hard time staffing ticketed folks that A, show up every day and B, can run a job without constant babysitting. I hold their hands through all the control stuff and advise on wiring practices such as terminating VFD shields, panel terminations and the like. They are getting better. However, it seems that as they go through Electrician after Electrician, my efforts in giving them experience is continuously walking out. I can see the contractor struggling to send us skill and always hunting for new talent.

Furthermore, you looking to be an Industrial Electrician. There really are not that many around, especially looking for work. To a contractor you might not be worth a lot, to an Industrial facility your priceless. As I said before, I have never been unemployed in Nova Scotia as an electrician, Industrial or Construction.

Get your Rockwell experience, do the labs, put it on your resume and apply to every maintenance department in an area that your interested in being in. It does not even have to be an electrical job. Here, not that I agree with it, but most mechanics, or techs, or whatever you want to call them, from every background is expected to try to fix electrical and on machine related control issues while waiting for help to arrive. At least safely gather what information they can so when help does come, they may offer assistance to make the troubleshooting time shorter. Sometimes they make it much worse but.......
I'm just saying, around here, the walk is what is important. Regardless of what piece of paper is in your hand, if you have a resume in to our facility with your experience on it, your at least getting an interview and likely a job. I like to think that we are pretty standard maintenance department for our size company and most operate similarly. Typically, the jobs I have landed, were not even jobs on postings, but more derived from chance applications, relationships built and attitude/skill displayed along the way beginning on a production line piling up board on a night shift.

So I shouldn't go through the arduous process of trying to switch my license? Even though industrial is a voluntary trade in the eyes of government they still won't let me apply to write the exam without a stack of paperwork that they shouldn't care about because after all it is "voluntary", not needing the license in order to work. I'll happily pay whatever fee it costs to write and the only requirement needed in that regard is if I pass or fail, none of this "you must have so many hours documented to prove you worked in industrial" nonsense.


I have six weeks of school left to finish my instrumentation apprenticeship so I can't leave yet, not until mid October which I'm ****ed about, because the school doesn't care that it was easier to find work in May when I was supposed to be finished rather than late Fall when snow is about to come down.


Any Rockwell stuff you have would be a big help. I'll even pay for physical material considering you're only one province over.

 

[PLC Pie Guy]

So I shouldn't go through the arduous process of trying to switch my license? Even though industrial is a voluntary trade in the eyes of government they still won't let me apply to write the exam without a stack of paperwork that they shouldn't care about because after all it is "voluntary", not needing the license in order to work. I'll happily pay whatever fee it costs to write and the only requirement needed in that regard is if I pass or fail, none of this "you must have so many hours documented to prove you worked in industrial" nonsense.


I have six weeks of school left to finish my instrumentation apprenticeship so I can't leave yet, not until mid October which I'm ****ed about, because the school doesn't care that it was easier to find work in May when I was supposed to be finished rather than late Fall when snow is about to come down.


Any Rockwell stuff you have would be a big help. I'll even pay for physical material considering you're only one province over.

Your not switching your license over. You are simply adding a second license. The fact that they want you to get hours is the same for all trades. I started as Industrial and got my Red Seal. That took 8000 hours or 4 years. So when I went to do my construction Red Seal, they say you get something like 2500 or 3000 hours toward a related trade for completion of the first, then if you went to school for the related trade, they give you another 1500 hours. You do still have to make up the minimum amount of hours to challenge the exam. It took me a year or so to make up those hours with a construction company so I could challenge and pass that exam. So now I end up being a dual ticket trade person.
I know they say that the Industrial trade is not compulsory in N.S. Yet. But the construction ticket is compulsory. That means anybody who wants to play with electricity may do so in a factory but not in a residential dwelling. I can tell you, some of the electricians that we see, I wouldn't want wiring my house! That is why the Industrial ticket is so important even though not compulsory. It says that you have some very valuable experience versus the guy that got his Red Seal from 4 years of running loomex through wooden studs and cant revers a 3 phase motor. Iv seen it with my own eyes!
I cant express to you how much that ticket is worth in any province. When I got my dual ticket, the Apprenticeship said I was only the 8th person to complete this in N.S. now that was 15 years ago so I assume there are more now, but it just shows how rare the Industrial ticket is and how it will give you a leg up on your fellow job applicants.

Certainly you got a raw deal with the Covid and your courses getting pushed around. It makes it hard to proceed with life when education is stalling you. I was also fortunate enough to start my post secondary straight from high school and had my first cert. by 23 years old.

I know Covid19 has affected eveybody in some way or another. Luckily for me, the worst has only been the fact that it stalled an important dental procedure where I was actually getting dental implants for my 2 front teeth that were knocked out as a kid. So, since last April, I have been toothless as it wasn't an essential procedure! Now the clinics are severely backed up and I'm not considered an immediate case. Glad I'm not job hunting now!