never ask this while in a bar with a bunch of drive techs

[TConnolly]

Well, I came along in the transistor era, but early enough to be in the computer punch card era. My college programming courses used punch cards. If you were lucky you could get on one of the electric card punches in the lab where you could key in the intstructions and data (in hex) on a keypad (Red 7 segment LED display) and push a button to punch the card. But there were only two of those, so most of the time I ened up on a manual card punch, you set the thumb levers, inserted a card, and pulled the punch lever. I learned the hard way that its a good idea to number your cards to keep them in order.

In my third year we got a lab with desktops. Altairs and Apple IIs. Big 8" floppy disk drives held 80K - the disk were almost as big as a phonograph record so the data on them was really fragile. I learned the hard way to purchase an extra disk and save everything twice on each disk.

The first controllers I worked with were DEC-PDP 8As - ferrite core memory - no micro-processor - it had a CPU bard (actually a four layer board assembly) loaded with gate chips instead of a microprocessor. We loaded the programs with punched paper tape and an optical reader, but the boot instructions had to be keyed in by hand (in hex) before you could use the optical reader. Then came PLCs where we could load the program by hand but then save it on a cassette tape with a tape recorder.

 

[rsdoran]

To me, silicon is just an element that you DOPE to make it a SEMI-CONDUCTOR.

Pure silicon is a semi-conductor...ie it is intermediate in conductance to an insulator or a conductor. The doping process actually adds impurities that can increase the conductivity of silicon by very high factors, in some cases they can replace metal as a conductor.
N doping adds electrons.
P doping creates holes.

 

[Rod]

Alaric,

You had Hollerith punch cards? Easy!!

In junior college we had a 4004 and had to toggle the address and the data to boot the teletype. Learned how to 'type' toggles - Octal is my middle name :grin:

I missed out on an advanced high school computer program in '65 - I had a 'B' in citizenship in the 9th grade.

I can make an Apple][ sing! - still have two and a bunch of disks.

And yes, dropping a stack of cards meant you just lost that nights chance at the 'teley'

Uhh, where were we

I trashed my 8" double-sided, double-density Qume drives for my Apple][e - BUT, I still have the 68000 card from Applied Engineering - should be in a museum, along with my Apples and the BIG RED BOOK.

The 'Bleeding-Edge' was fun, but costly!!

And yes, I built a cat-whisker radio before I ground the mirror for my 8" Newtonian telescope.

We ARE a rare breed! Chr$(10),Chr$(13)

Rod (can spell ASCII) but could not attach a HMI to a PLC to save my...

 

[JohnW]

Anyone out there still using Eurobeebs or uMACs?

For my money 6502 and 8088 machine code programming was the most fun I had since my granny caught her t.ts in the mangle.

 

[Allan Barnes]

Man I thought I had it bad growing up on DOS, these stories make me happy I was still in dippers at the time. But then again I have had the pleasure of working with some of the mechanical/pnumatic stuff from the 50's and 60's and I am in total awe of the pressision of that stuff.

 

[Tom Jenkins]

I have had the pleasure of working with some of the mechanical/pnumatic stuff from the 50's and 60's and I am in total awe of the pressision of that stuff.

We did a project a few years ago converting the controls from an dual fueled engine driven blower from pneumatic to PLC. It included a whole bunch of T/C to pneumatic signal conditioners for exhaust valve temps etc. etc. as well as pneumatic PID controllers and so on. The pneumatic diagrams for this pup were almost impossible to read, but it was definitely a trip working on this system!

It is absolutely amazing what could be done with pneumatics. I remember discussing the tradeoffs of electronic vs. pneumatic controls for the HVAC system with the electrician in the buildings and grounds department at college. It was his firm opinion that electronics could never compete with pneumatics in terms of accuracy, flexibility, and cost!

 

[CaseyK]

I thought a transistor was a cross-dressing nun?

Very Good... ilike that one, and plan to use it...

And for those that this bothers, I was married in the Cathederal in Peoria.

 

[Leadfoot]

It was his firm opinion that electronics could never compete with pneumatics in terms of accuracy, flexibility, and cost!

Was this gentleman afflicted with a severe case of gray hair?

I have heard the expression "all of this new fangled stuff just can't compare" many, many, too many times...... AARRGGHH!!

"We've been doing it like this for 30 years" is another expression that makes the hair on my neck stand out straight.

I was starting up a VFD where the pneumatic controls were actually going to feed a P to E that controlled the VFD speed. There were 5 electricians there to be given OJT on the drive and verify the correct functioning of the system. All of them complained about the pneumatic controls and said there were much better ones available that were much easier to tune.

I guess you like what you know and do not like what you do not know.

 

[TConnolly]

Anyone out there still using ... uMACs?

Well I'll be dipped! I thought I was the only one. I still have one of those hunks of junk in operation. The biggest problem with that piece of **** is that it never goes down, so I can't seem to get rid of it.


Anyone ever have or remember the monitors for the Apple IIs that would only display 1/2 of an 80 character line at a time, and to see the remaining 40 characters you had to reach up and toggle a switch?

All you young guys, just remember that you have a fancy GUI because the generation before you got sick and tired of dealing with things like that, same as we had punch cards because our dad's got tired of adding by hand.

 

[Eric Nelson]

We did a project a few years ago converting the controls from an dual fueled engine driven blower from pneumatic to PLC. It included a whole bunch of T/C to pneumatic signal conditioners for exhaust valve temps etc. etc. as well as pneumatic PID controllers and so on. The pneumatic diagrams for this pup were almost impossible to read, but it was definitely a trip working on this system!

I've worked on a few machines that used 100% pneumatic logic. I think Clippard was big in the miniature pneumatic logic stuff. When it worked, it worked well (and no electric shocks!). The problem is that once it got fouled up with dirty air, it no longer worked, and was nearly impossible to troubleshoot...

When I worked in injection molding, one of the first automated assembly machines we bought was an Ilsemann audio cassette box (Norelco box) assembler. The control system consisted of racks and racks of plug-in cards. The cards contained logic circuits (AND gates, OR gates, timer cards, etc.) that were 'programmed' by wiring them together as needed to achieve the desired function. The wirewrapping job was absolutely beautiful, and troubleshooting was actually quite easy, since you could measure voltages at any point in the system.

Of course, PLCs made this type of system obsolete. The next generation of machines we bought from Ilsemann all had PLCs to replace the hardwired logic.



-Eric

 

[JohnW]

Well I'll be dipped! I thought I was the only one. I still have one of those hunks of junk in operation. The biggest problem with that piece of **** is that it never goes down, so I can't seem to get rid of it.QUOTE]

I have left the company now but we had about 6 left in operation, they were fine as long as you didn't touch them but you could take a working card out and put it back duff (and before you all shout ESD it wasn't that). I never really found these problems but I did improve it by replacing all of the IC sockets with better quality.

 

[Andrew Evenson]

What about this stuff??

Anyone ever use GE "D2" or Redbox logic??? Just saw the last of the "D2" logic go a few years ago here.

 

[rdrast]

That is not a correct statement, maybe you should clarify. I would but I have to go to class.

Technically if it doesnt say insuolated....it aint.

Due to circumstances this will be my last post for awhile...keep up the good work.

The 'Metal Oxide' part, is an insulator. It is an extremely thin oxidized layer over the contact that acts as the dielectric of the gate capacitor in a *OSFET.

 

[elevmike]

Pure silicon is a semi-conductor...ie it is intermediate in conductance to an insulator or a conductor. The doping process actually adds impurities that can increase the conductivity of silicon by very high factors, in some cases they can replace metal as a conductor.
N doping adds electrons.
P doping creates holes.

Actually PURE silicon is a great insulator with a very hi dielectric strength. The "doping" process (with boron, or phospherous, arsnic, alum. etc) causes the holes, or free electrons (depending on the introduced element). The result is a semiconductor.

 

[rsdoran]

The result is a semiconductor.

NO, as we all know gold, silver, copper are great conductors, low resistance and high conductance.

Air, glass, ceramic....are insulators, high resistance and low conductance.

A semiconductor is a material that is intermediate to an insulator or a conductor but will have conductance variability based on temperature: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor

There are several types of silicon and several misuses of the terms but "ultrapure silicon" is a semiconductor, it is "doped" to adjust its electrical response.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon

You dont "make" a semiconductor any more then you can convert lead to gold...a semiconductor "is". What you do is "dope" a semiconductor material (such as pure silicon) with impurities to vary the electrical properties...then it becomes a semiconductor device....ie transistor etc.