OT - Employment contracts

[PeterW]

Pay & working conditions here in the US compared to the UK are a million times better.

That's a rather sweeping statement.


The thing with the contract on offer here, is the payrise. I would imagine the company (rightly or wrongly) want to have a known salary bill for the year and looked at the current wage bill taking into account the overtime.

So they give everyone a payrise which takes into account the loss of overtime and expect the work to be done at that price.

So it may not exactly be asking to work 10.5 hours for 8 hours pay.

As Marshy says he'd get 2500 extra if he actually worked all those hours, but is he expected to work all those hours or just the hours to get the work done.

The question then is, what was his average hours and how much did he get paid. Where does the break even point come with his new salary before he starts 'giving' hours to the company and how does this compare to his historical actual working hours.

 

[SLC_Integrator]

That's a rather sweeping statement.

That because its true.
I was watching a show on TV over the weekend that was investigating why so many successful people in the USA were immigrants.
They interviewed 4 of them and they all said exactly the same thing:

Opportunity!

In the UK there is a 'glass ceiling' above which you will never, ever rise. A tech can never hope to be anything but a tech. There is no room to grow, move or be successful. Why? I have no idea, but I do know that I pretty much increased my wage substantially with every move I've made over here in the US.
In 15 years in the UK may wage stayed within 2 or 3 grand of when I finished my apprenticeship.

So immigrants come to the US full or energy and enthusiasm and this place feeds on that. You work hard and stick at it, the rewards are there for you. In the UK you work harder and all you get is tired.

 

[PeterW]

That because its true.
I was watching a show on TV over the weekend

OK, must be true then


I don't think you can honestly tar all UK companies with one brush, not even on a straw poll of 4 specially selected people.

In the UK, if you work hard, you can get promoted. I started as an electrical apprentice, 8 years after I finished the apprenticeship I was in management.


Yes, in some places the harder you work the more work you get given with no benefit, I'm sure that happens the world over.

I don't think that you can lay credence to knowledge of the whole of British industry.

 

[kamenges]

Based on what I've read from Mashy's reply he already ran the numbers and will make out better financially with the new contract. As others have already said, if he doesn't actually need to put in all the hours he will really make out.

I would have to guess, as others already have, that the company is just covering it's bases. If push comes to shove they want to be able to work you up to 48 hours per week and want you to know it. They don't actually plan on that happening. Very little is worse for morale than having a bunch of guys sitting arounds with nothing to do but are forced to sit at their desks anyway. Regardless of what we believe HR departments are not typically stocked with complete morons. They understand this.

The three months advance notice before leaving does seem a bit high. However, if is is matched by a similar employer requirement, I wouldn't be opposed to it. It really depends on whether you feel you will like the job and will stay for 20 years. If this is your plan then the three month thing isn't a real big deal. If you want to move on in a year it is more of an issue. Yes, you would be giving up some flexibility. But if that comes with more pay and some short-term financial security it may be worth it.

Basically this is a personal decision. If the job looked like something I will like and the points I made were met I would sign the contract in a heartbeat. I don't see anything specifically wrong with it. But that's just me.

Keith

 

[SLC_Integrator]

OK, must be true then


I don't think you can honestly tar all UK companies with one brush, not even on a straw poll of 4 specially selected people.

In the UK, if you work hard, you can get promoted. I started as an electrical apprentice, 8 years after I finished the apprenticeship I was in management.


Yes, in some places the harder you work the more work you get given with no benefit, I'm sure that happens the world over.

I don't think that you can lay credence to knowledge of the whole of British industry.

In my experience promotion was one of two ways: 'Top Sucks Up' or 'Dead Mans Boots'.
The first case was the guy that got promoted was the one who came in early and left late for no extra $ & toadied up to the bosses.
The second and more common was that when the boss eventually retired or died then the next most senior would get the job regardless of wether he was the best person for the job or not.

I cant profess to knowing the entire UK industry, but I did travel around a fair bit and it looked pretty much the same to me. I guess this way of doing things is one of the reasons the UK manufacturing industry is dying.
That and the fact they replaced proper schooling and apprenticeships with 'Vocational' qualifications and 'on the job training', diluting the skills pool and losing the quality of craftsmanship that I was taught.

 

[keithb]

Being from UK and on a contract of employment, it worked to my advantage last year. I had 4 months off sick after a brain haemorrhage and didn't lose a penny in pay as my contract entitled me to up to 7.5 months off sick on full salary as I had more than 10 years service.

My contract also states my working hours as 40 hours per week with extra hours when required - no limit. How would they enforce that then? I usually try to take time off in lieu if I work extra hours and my employers are pretty reasonable about it. I still usually end up working more than 40 hours though.

 

[PeterW]

In my experience promotion was one of two ways: 'Top Sucks Up' or 'Dead Mans Boots'.
The first case was the guy that got promoted was the one who came in early and left late for no extra $ & toadied up to the bosses.
The second and more common was that when the boss eventually retired or died then the next most senior would get the job regardless of wether he was the best person for the job or not.

I did neither god I hope not (I did move company twice though)

I cant profess to knowing the entire UK industry, but I did travel around a fair bit and it looked pretty much the same to me. I guess this way of doing things is one of the reasons the UK manufacturing industry is dying.
That and the fact they replaced proper schooling and apprenticeships with 'Vocational' qualifications and 'on the job training', diluting the skills pool and losing the quality of craftsmanship that I was taught.

I think its more due to cheaper labour elsewhere, we British buy anything as long as its cheap. In France and Germany, they still have their own motor industry as they were proud to buy something made in their country, we don't and we haven't.

So industry is moving toward Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, India, etc etc.


As far as apprenticeships are concerned, these for some reason stopped in mst companies when Maggie decided that companies should not be given reward for employing apprentices, she was raised in a shop of course.

 

[SLC_Integrator]

I did neither god I hope not (I did move company twice though)





I think its more due to cheaper labour elsewhere, we British buy anything as long as its cheap. In France and Germany, they still have their own motor industry as they were proud to buy something made in their country, we don't and we haven't.

So industry is moving toward Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, India, etc etc.

I think the average Brits attitude of buying 'whatevers cheapest' stems from the over-taxation. When you have little or no disposable income you make it go as far as you can by whatever means necessary.

As far as apprenticeships are concerned, these for some reason stopped in mst companies when Maggie decided that companies should not be given reward for employing apprentices, she was raised in a shop of course.

But then of course 'New Labour' did absolutely nothing to change that. The only thing I liked about working in the UK was the 6 weeks paid vacation. NHS is a waste of time as every job I've had they paid you to have private healthcare because they didnt want you out sick for months on an NHS waiting list.

I laugh when I see all the democrats dabbling in socialism... I lived it for 20-odd years and came to the conclusion capitalism for your average working person is much more rewarding!