OT, the financial crisis

[curlyandshemp]

Keep in mind people, you will only lose money during this 'crisis' if you sell. NOW is a great time to invest in rock solid companies that are offering their stock at discounted prices. During the last 'blip' the markets had about 2 weeks ago, one of the TSX's most solid funds TD Bank was at a 52 week low. At that point, I purchased more stock, and within 1 week TD stock had gained about 15%. But unfortunately the last two trading day's events have evaporated those gains. Oh well, there goes that theory.

 

[leitmotif]

Time after time after time all investment guys advise invest for long haul. Losses in a down market are ALL
ONLY on paper if you do NOT sell
PROVIDED it is a solid stock.

Dan Bentler

 

[TConnolly]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs&eurl=?t=32350

 

[bkottaras]

For some reason or other this thread remind me of the last Boeing strike where management announced a multimillion stock deal for the CEO. They are stupid enough to announce this during a strike??

Dan Bentler

Dan, see below!!!

I read several years ago (cannot recall where) that for a modern manager to be successful he has to make correct and good decisions 55% of the time. If this is modern management then I think we are in trouble. Maybe this 55% includes "well I am not sure if this will work but let us try it and see - if not we will not do that and think of something else". If so then that may not be so bad.

Dan Bentler

So....... they are just doing it by the "modern golden book of management"!

 

[Mike Dyble]

It may be obvious but you should buy when everyone else is selling, and sell when everyone else is buying, if you are then not looking for a quick gain you will win over time. I think this applies to property or stocks or whatever. It also requires liquid funds, hence the saying 'money makes money'.

I think the problem is the short term approach that all institutions take, sudden reactions to the latest news destabilise the market.

The house market in the UK has been overheated for some time, with first time buyers being priced out in many areas, even if they are earning good money. This is only sustainable for so long as no new people coming into the market mean that eventually the market will stall and that is what has happened.

One thing that suprises me is that interest rates on mortgages have remained low. If there is a shortage of money I would expect rates to rise and bring more money in to balance supply and demand, but that hasnt happened, instead things just seem to have ground to a halt.

This is the UK perspective, how closely does this match the US situation?

 

[bkottaras]

I think the problem is the short term approach that all institutions take, sudden reactions to the latest news destabilise the market.

I think this pretty much sums it up.
Same approach here from what I've seen.
Interest rates are low as well.
The real problem now is that you cannot get a loan as no financial insitution will be willing to give you one. (They have ran out of money themselves nowadays as the bad loans started taking effect and foreclosures are rising expotantially by the day).
Even if you make good money.
They used to give out loans for housing to people who could never ever make the (actual) payment. No questions asked approach.
The adjustable rate also killed most of them as their payments skyrocketed from let's say $1000.00/month to almost double. And this is where we stand now.

 

[STEVEBOT]

It may be obvious but you should buy when everyone else is selling, and sell when everyone else is buying, if you are then not looking for a quick gain you will win over time. I think this applies to property or stocks or whatever. It also requires liquid funds, hence the saying 'money makes money'.

I think the problem is the short term approach that all institutions take, sudden reactions to the latest news destabilise the market.

The house market in the UK has been overheated for some time, with first time buyers being priced out in many areas, even if they are earning good money. This is only sustainable for so long as no new people coming into the market mean that eventually the market will stall and that is what has happened.

One thing that suprises me is that interest rates on mortgages have remained low. If there is a shortage of money I would expect rates to rise and bring more money in to balance supply and demand, but that hasnt happened, instead things just seem to have ground to a halt.

This is the UK perspective, how closely does this match the US situation?

Various building societies are at present romoving fixed rate deals or increasing Lending rates to try and get capital back.
The Mortgage rate has not followed the true bank of England rate fully since the Crisis started to come to light.

I Note that on most replies here that we all say the same thing, how the hell was it allowed to happen when the big boys made the money things were good, now they need our help to bail them out.
What happened toall the bonuses P**s**d up against a wall in champagne parties thats what. They are a live for now group of people.
I have always been taught and lived under the principle of trying to ensure I can finance my debt and save at the same time but they now want our nest eggs to pay for their misjudgments.
It is an example of what happens when a free market is allowed to run too free.
As for Golden Handshakes/Parchutes if we made the mistakes in our line would we get one, don't think so

 

[boardmaker]

Thought everyone would like to read this.
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1845209,00.html?cnn=yes

 

[Mike Dyble]

Thought everyone would like to read this.
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1845209,00.html?cnn=yes

Sounds like common sense to me, but common sense is a commidity that has always been in short supply with politicians of all persuasions both in the US and UK.

What really annoys me is that ordinary people can see what is going to happen in a lot of cases but the politicians just pretend that there is not a problem

 

[Peter Nachtwey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4AvbYUu1Mg

 

[mrtweaver]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4AvbYUu1Mg

I followed this link, watched the video, thought about sending it to others, when I did the link became broken and said the video was removed. Makes you wonder if BIG BROTHER is not watching and does not want the public to know where the bailout money is really going.

 

[curlyandshemp]

Sounds like common sense to me, but common sense is a commidity that has always been in short supply with politicians of all persuasions both in the US and UK.

What really annoys me is that ordinary people can see what is going to happen in a lot of cases but the politicians just pretend that there is not a problem

As far as politicians and retirement income are concerned, after a Canadian politician serves X# of years, they are assured a pension which value is not tied to the value of the stock market, or mutual funds, or interest rates or...

 

[mrtweaver]

A group of us here at work have been watching this 'Bailout' thing as it unfolds. You know what I can not understand: Lets say one of the people on here who owns or manages an Automation/Integration business has some financial troubles and it affects other similar industries. Would the Gov come to their aid such as they are doing with this bail out plan? Make one wonder since the senate sweetened the pot so to say with so many perks and tax breaks what their real motive is in getting this bill passed. I say it like this, the Gov went in deregulated, then these couple of corupt business went south, so let them hang. They are the ones that mismanaged and such. Might sound cruel and hearless but hell my parents had a perfect saying "You made the bed now you sleep in it." Then you have some of the member of Gov saying on TV that the bulk of this money used in the bailout is going to overseas investors and such, but the other parts of Gov. are saying no it is to help here at home. Really??? I once read two bumper stickers that said it all: "DONT STEAL (The gov. hates competition)" and " The biggest Lie in America: Hello I am from the Government and I am here to help." And finally it is said there was a petition that was presented to Gov that was signed by a lot of people that said DO NOT PASS THIS BAILOUT BILL and yet the Gov still is trying to pass it by sweetening the pot and giving themselves tax breaks and such. First tell me how that is going to help the average american and second it still looks as though there is an alterior motive here. I mean they take a public poll and people say NO, this petition says NO, and yet they still push for it?? And we keep electing these A$$es. Sorry to rant but I felt it had to be said.

 

[leitmotif]

I think the bailout is justified because if we dont do it it could result in a major depression as happened in 1929. Im OK with bailing out the banks and keeping them alive so industry does not shut down.

The government cannot let major defense industry go under - thus the Chrysler bailout. That is OK with me we need the industry if we go to war.
A lot of people cheated and in my mind should go to jail. OK so much for them.

A lot of others made dumb decisions ie subprime loans - how do you hold them accountable and what are you going to do with them (or to them?).
I keep hearing this management blather about accountability - but in places where I work and others that other people complain about why is it that accountability never seems to work at the upper levels - why do they always seem to hang the lowest guy on the pole?
Couple examples
Airline pilot has many lives in his care. When he makes a dumb decision and the plane crashes often he is the first to die.
Train engineer screws up and gets in collision - he is often first to die.
Those guys at least pay for their mistakes.
In a way I like the way the Navy does it - the captain of a ship is snoozing away in his bunk when the guys driving the ship hit something. That just about wipes out his career right then and there.
Another (sometimes enforced) is OSHA "you are supposed to know the law"
or even the cop who gives you a ticket "ignorance of the law is no excuse - complain to the judge here is your ticket"
So why do we never do these things to middle and upper management "you were in charge, you are supposed to be responsible YOU ARE ACCOUNTABLE.

Dan Bentler

 

[Sliver]

So why do we never do these things to middle and upper management "you were in charge, you are supposed to be responsible YOU ARE ACCOUNTABLE.

Dan Bentler

We experienced a fatality at out plant about a month ago. The equipment was in a short shutdown for emergency repairs. The plant manager was personally visiting the site of the repairs multiple times in the day preceeding the accident. He wasn't there to make sure the guys were following all the safety procedures. They took a shortcut and a 35 year old worker died. It will be interesting to see who takes the fall. I would bet my paycheck it won't be the plant manager.

Brian