Rockwell licensing changed, Who is better?

[KP_EENG]

The Proficy software has greatly improved in recent years. I have programmed AB PLCS for 15 years and used RSLogix 5, RSlogix 500 and RSLogix 5000. I think that RSLogix is very good software and Proficy did take some getting used to, but after only 2 years of programming the GE's with Proficy, now I find myself missing the Proficy tools when I have to use RSLogix.

Of course, I am an end user, so I am not tied to what a customer specifies, but with this economy I think that we will begin to see more guys like me opting to go with more power at a lower price than sticking with a certain brand because we are comfortable with the technology. I am a true example of this. My last two projects have been implemented with Wago Ethernet programmable fieldbus controllers. They are very powerful, low cost controllers (about $575.00) and can be programmed with CoDeSys, a true IEC-61131 compliant progamming software package.

Regards

 

[Matthias von Zorn]

I assume from the comments that the new activation requires the software to have a net connection? Am I reading this right? This worries me, as most of the systems I ship end up with no external access. Should I be concerned?

 

[IXLR8]

You should be concerned

I assume from the comments that the new activation requires the software to have a net connection? Am I reading this right? This worries me, as most of the systems I ship end up with no external access. Should I be concerned?

In my opinion you should be very concerned anytime you cannot replace system that is down with only a box of software. We have many installations both offshore, out the country, and in areas that do not have cellular coverage. How can anyone with any dignity, tell their customer that they sold or recommended software that cannot be installed in a mission critical system without relying the support of a software vendor. No company has a good enough support system to justify that. How many pieces of software that you purchased 10 years ago can still be supported by that vendor? Out of those how many had communication mandatory copy protection? Our systems have a design life of 20 years. 19 years from now do you think anyone on the other end of the phone (if they are still in business) is going know how to activate a 19 year old product. No. The reply will be "we can upgrade you for a fee". But if you have a box of software, you will not have a problem.

I have people ask me every day how to get their iTunes songs back because their computer crashed. There is not any single comprehensive way to protect software intellectual property. Companies seem to have little understanding of the requirements of the people that actually have to do the support work in the field.

I would like the person that decided to implement a communication based copy protection scheme to let me install the same system on the gas cap of his/her car. Call me, I will provide the unlock code any time they need to gas up the car. Both are mission critical applications, that can happen anywhere at any time. I will bet that condition will not exist for very long. Do you think these are not similar? They have one car, I support dozens of systems, any one of which can go down, and never at a convenient time.

Copy protection does not work, and it only inconveniences the people that sincerely need the stuff to just work.

End of Rant #10023 <stepping down from soapbox>

Simulated phone call 19 years from now in the year 2028

"Hello Rockwell software, how can I direct your call" <automated voice>
I need support unlocking RSLogix 5000 Revision 16.

"I'm sorry we now only support the Holographic Linux version, or Windows version 17 and above"
But all I have is Windows XP.

"You can upgrade to our software but you will also need to update the hardware to 2000 core processors or more."
But I just need this to work.

"we now only support crypt key sequenced DNA encryption"
I guess it is just time to retire...

 

[OkiePC]

The new Factory talk activation is an improvement.

It is not dependent on a floppy disk and evmove.

It is simply a text file based on your PC hard drive SN, NIC, USB dongle, and there is even a network licensing scheme.

You can make as many backups of that license as you want for safekeeping.

So, you worry what if my hard drive catches on fire and I have to replace it. No problem, with CPR9 you get a 7 day grace period which should be plenty of time to get a new license file to match your new hard drive serial number or NIC.

So you worry that you will never have the target PC on the internet to get the activation file. No problem. You get the host ID of the target PC from the factory talk activation software installed on it. Then use a different PC with internet access and enter that host ID on the website.

Yes, it is a few more steps, but no reason to panic. If you are intimidated by the internet altoghether or unable to follow a four or five step set of instructions, then you can simply call them and they can e-mail you the file.

Personally, I like this new method better than the floppy based system.

Paul

 

[IXLR8]

The new Factory talk activation is an improvement.

It is not dependent on a floppy disk and evmove.

It is simply a text file based on your PC hard drive SN, NIC, USB dongle, and there is even a network licensing scheme.

You can make as many backups of that license as you want for safekeeping.

So, you worry what if my hard drive catches on fire and I have to replace it. No problem, with CPR9 you get a 7 day grace period which should be plenty of time to get a new license file to match your new hard drive serial number or NIC.

So you worry that you will never have the target PC on the internet to get the activation file. No problem. You get the host ID of the target PC from the factory talk activation software installed on it. Then use a different PC with internet access and enter that host ID on the website.

Yes, it is a few more steps, but no reason to panic. If you are intimidated by the internet altoghether or unable to follow a four or five step set of instructions, then you can simply call them and they can e-mail you the file.

Personally, I like this new method better than the floppy based system.

Paul

But how will they do it 19 years form now when I need it one last time? All companies eventually go out of business. No one should have rely on an external source to verify licensing.

 

[Matthias von Zorn]

Ok, so your saying once I activate the software from a system with access, I get some kind of code or file that I can move into the other system. Once thats done, they dont need access again? What if the customer does something like swap the HD out for a clone? Is that going to be an issue, since it sounds like its tied to hardware? If they change a NIC or such, are they SOL until they get online again?

It may seem a tad paranoid, but I just spent an hour on a phone walking a guy through changing a card in a rack. One they changed 3 times. Too bad they cant count to 14, and always stocked at slot 13. So, yea, end users are idiots sometimes.

 

[IXLR8]

Ok, so your saying once I activate the software from a system with access, I get some kind of code or file that I can move into the other system. Once thats done, they dont need access again? What if the customer does something like swap the HD out for a clone? Is that going to be an issue, since it sounds like its tied to hardware? If they change a NIC or such, are they SOL until they get online again?

It may seem a tad paranoid, but I just spent an hour on a phone walking a guy through changing a card in a rack. One they changed 3 times. Too bad they cant count to 14, and always stocked at slot 13. So, yea, end users are idiots sometimes.

It also will not work on a virtual machine which is the mainstay of the work I do. I create a virtual machine for each site so I do not have to reconfigure the daunting amount of software addresses and oddball requirements. I have not verified it while restoring a backup.

 

[OkiePC]

Ok, so your saying once I activate the software from a system with access, I get some kind of code or file that I can move into the other system. Once thats done, they dont need access again? What if the customer does something like swap the HD out for a clone? Is that going to be an issue, since it sounds like its tied to hardware? If they change a NIC or such, are they SOL until they get online again?...

With the newest CPR9, they would have a 7 day grace period with a nuiscance warning every four hours.

In your case, the USB dongle might be the best solution. Surely the end users can move a USB stick from one machine to another.

If I were putting in a system with swappable hard drives, I would go with the dongle, or use the NIC.

 

[Matthias von Zorn]

Yea, dongle sounds great! I thought the whole point of the new activation was getting rid of the dongles and floppies etc. So I assume I can request a dongle when ordering their software? Cool.

Use the NIC? What do you mean, how does a NIC provide activation?

God, I hope wonderware never goes to a system like this, VMs are my lifeblood in WW!!!!! Why wont that customer just upgrade that 5.6b license!!!

 

[Gil47]

Use the NIC? What do you mean, how does a NIC provide activation?

A NIC is an incoming path for comms, and a NIC has a MAC ID, so activation is registered against that card, which can be shifted to another PC, is how I understand it,

 

[OkiePC]

Use the NIC? What do you mean, how does a NIC provide activation?

You can "Host" activation to a hard drive serial number, or to the NIC (I believe they use the MAC ID). Don't use the NIC (network interface card) method for laptops in which the card may power itself down when inactive.

Paul

 

[Gil47]

I saw Okie had gone off line so I sent a reply, but our answer seemed to use the new telpathic means of communications,that will be available in 19 years, as we nearly gave the same answer.
The system still needs refinements yet

 

[Paullys50]

The new licensing works on Virtual machines. Setup your local machine as an activation server and your virtual machine(s) as clients.

As for the paranoid...

If it's the customer's fault that they lost the license, it's their fault the plant is down. They can blame rockwell all they want, but in the end it's their fault, nobody elses. Rockwell has every right to protect their product.

Assigning the license to the NIC on the motherboard is the safest as a hard drive can crash, and the customer can remove PCI ethernet cards without a problem. They remove the motherboard...well there is a bigger issue. As mentioned you can copy the license file, document all the keys/setings that go with it.

Sending customers computers that are "drop in" is easy as you just activate everything before you ship it...

 

[Matthias von Zorn]

You can "Host" activation to a hard drive serial number, or to the NIC (I believe they use the MAC ID). Don't use the NIC (network interface card) method for laptops in which the card may power itself down when inactive.

Paul

Yea, I know what a NIC is Ah, so you can pick which hardware piece you want it attached to?? That is pretty handy! Im used to these type of system looking at the NIC, HD, CPU, MB, and VC and then making a number off of it, and if you change ANY of the hardware, you screwed.

 

[Greg Dake]

Another thought

If you're paranoid, just get a USB NIC. Tie the activations to that USB NIC. When the PC dies, use that USB NIC as your Ethernet interface on the new PC. Thus you wouldn't be swapping out PCI cards.

Greg