Software

[BigAl]

But you get free golf balls and USB pens

I agree with elitheei. I can remember when I first wanted to learn PLC programming. It seemed like everyone I talked to said you need to learn RSlogix, or you are wasting your time. This was when AB first came out with the Micrologix series and I think I was still in college. At the time they had a package which had a plc, a cable and a copy of RS Logix with limited capabilities. I remember walking into my local AB distributor, and asking for the price. I can't remember exactly what it was, but at the time I thought it was outrageous.The distributor explained to me that because I was not an OEM, or integrator he couldn't give me any type of discount.
Eventually I got a job working for a company wiring electrical panels. They would let me borrow a company laptop, and a GE Micro PLC on weekends, and thats how I got started. You would think that at least one PLC manufacturer would take an interest in people who are just starting to learn, and try and cater to them a little. Afterall these are the people who will become the future system integrators, and will purchase many more PLC's. I guess that would rather give out golf balls and USB pens.

 

[Tom Jenkins]

A-B has a right to charge what they feel the market will bear. I don't like their pricing, but with the exception of the PanelView line I feel they have good hardware and generally give a reasonable value for the money. I also feel that A-B has gotten more competitive in the last couple of years.

It is a competitive world. If A-B is way out of line they will loose market share as customers vote with their wallets. Remember when Modicon was the 900 pound gorrilla of PLCs? They screwed up and are now a minor player, because they failed to give a reasonable combination of price, service, and quality.

A-B supports a lot of products with their golf balls and other swag, not just PLCs.

AutomationDirect.com is still my favorite, and I wish A-B would get rid of some of the lawyers and let applications guys write their manuals. I also think their software guys need a serious attitude adjustment. But that won't lead me to buy illiegal copies of their stuff or anyone else's. That is just bad business and poor ethics.

 

[MarkTTU]

A-B has a right to charge what they feel the market will bear.

It is a competitive world. If A-B is way out of line they will loose market share as customers vote with their wallets.

AutomationDirect.com is still my favorite, and I wish A-B would get rid of some of the lawyers and let applications guys write their manuals. I also think their software guys need a serious attitude adjustment. But that won't lead me to buy illiegal copies of their stuff or anyone else's. That is just bad business and poor ethics.

Tom I agree with your 110%... If the cost of the software is that out of line then it won't sell, if it doesn't sell they'll either lower the price or go out of business, its how the world works...

I'm blessed to be in the position of OEM, I pick the PLC for all new products (and upgrades to old ones) and in the 5+ years I've been doing this I've always picked AD. Its inexpensive, easy to use, and the tech support is great...

As far as the guy's who have customers screaming for AB, add the cost of the software to your quote and go on... That's also how business works, the costs all get passed to the customer one way or another

 

[Mr Dave]

It's interesting to see a lot comments about the price AB software being high. Why is this a problem? The only problem with this is if you were just purchasing the software for your self. Personally I have allways used AB and never have found it to be lacking and will continue to use it for the time being. Software from GE is also expensive, the software package I last purchase for programming Siemens Step 5 ran around $3000.00.

 

[elevmike]

I think I might have said this before, but I'll risk repeating myself..

At least in my world the cost of the sofware and hardware far pale in comparison to the cost of the time (labor) spent on any given project. In reality we spend about 10-20% of the total project cost on the control system. The rest is spent in design, building it and installing it. So if we were using AB instead of AD it likely wouldnt make much difference in our bid. As the cost of the sofware is amortized out over like 100 jobs, and the upgrades can be immideatly expensed out etc.. the acutal expense is almost nill. My opinion is that pireted, thus non-supported sofware is going to be MORE expensive then any savings from the initial purchase.

What really attracts us to AD is the ease of use. Clear cut manuals, great website for quick ordering, Very good tech support etc.. The lower cost is just a little bonus for us, and also makes it easier to stock parts.

My say on the subject.

 

[MarkTTU]

I hear ya Mike, and I know I'm the odd-ball of the PLC world, but price matters a bunch for me... If I can save $1500 (recently cut cost by that just moving from DL205 to DL06) per panel that's some serious money accross 20 panels (a 'normal' job run). Unlike most of ya'll I get to amortize my time over like 50-100 machines...

 

[Mr Dave]

The reality is this. If a company wants you to build a system using brand X plc and you do not have the software then you would include the software cost as part of the bid package. So this does not the answere my question regarding the many complaints regarding the high cost of AB software when it is not coming out of your pockets.

 

[harryting]

Regarding the ease of ordering online... I just went to AB's website trying to get a price for RSLinx Gateway. Website times out again and again. Come on! Aren't Rockwell supposed to an automation company?

I know I can call the distributor but that's not the point. If you can't make your e-commerce website working then what business do you have in selling e-bussiness ware? --rant off

 

[mgvol]

Some knuckle-head posted a thread on the Rockwell Software chat forum that he had several (bootlegged) RS products, but needed activation files. Wanted to know if anyone was interested in trading stuff for some activations! Is it just me, or isn't this like going to the police to report someone has stolen your pot?

 

[93lt1]

Regarding the ease of ordering online... I just went to AB's website trying to get a price for RSLinx Gateway. Website times out again and again. Come on! Aren't Rockwell supposed to an automation company?

Rockwell should not be held responsible for your computer/service provider's problems.

I had no problems.

 

[rsdoran]

I got to the AB store too but didnt want to say anything.

Not sure that its illegal to have a copy of any software, selling pirated copies is. I got my registered version in a trade, I did the job and got a copy.

 

[kamenges]

I might be wrong on this so don't quote me in Lawyers Weekly.

As far as I know you can have as many copies of software as you want. It's the keys that are really regulated. Since the key can only be used with one copy of the software at any given time the key is the magic thing. And as long as the key is registered in your name and only your name I don't think it really matters how you got it. The important thing is that the key ownership was transfered from someone else to you officially by Rockwell.

Keith

 

[bobwithdana]

Heres my opinion, Although I do not support breaking copyright laws. If a new person could pick up some used hardwae on E-Bay as well as purchase the software for $185, set it up on the bench. Test, Learn and just develope his carrier then am all for it. Once he joins a company and works on Allen bradley controlled machenery then they need to have all the proper software and liscenses. as well as a contract for Direct connect which I couldnt live without.

Bob

 

[sparkysliderz]

Re: Looks like a good deal to me

My company just paid 2500 for that package from Mc & Mc, I think Rockwell rips us all off anyway we all use their products every day and they charge use thousands for the software, and have to renew the lic every year, They are making a killing on all of the product lines any way. the software should be free to the end users like us.

I couldnt agree with you more! if the software were free then more people would buy AB or Siemens equipment! I think the first company who stops charging for its software would make a killing selling their equipment.

 

[JesperMP]

if the software were free then more people would buy AB or Siemens equipment

The two mentioned automation providers are the amongst the most succesful in the world market. So they must be doing something right.

Free software would be nice, but it is not really the most important factor when choosing a PLC platform.

.. they sell a "toolkit for a 10th of the price I was paying ... to an intergrator, they should offer this to everyone

This makes a lot of sense on the other hand. The conditions should be equal for the little guy and the big guy.