Wago I/O IPC for fast motion control application

[RollingPin]

Has anybody much experience with the Wago I/O IPC for fast control applcations? This is a 2-axis motion control application. I planned on using the Siemens S7-400 with FM458. If the Wago IPC is really powerful enough, it would be a more cost-effective choice. Any idea how to calculate the IO scan time?

 

[Peter Nachtwey]

If you are talking about fast motion control then you need a motion controller. PLCs are usually not fast enough, have the high speed inputs, and don't have all the specialized code to do motion control. If there isn't a lot of I/O then you may be able to do the whole project in the motion controller or drives.

A relatively local place to get good information.
http://www.servocontrolsindia.com/

 

[JRW]

Look into a Siemens simotion c240 the 458 is over kill for 2 axis

 

[RollingPin]

Look into a Siemens simotion c240 the 458 is over kill for 2 axis

Hi JRW. I was travelling and could see your post just now. Thanks for the pointer. I did some quick reading on the C240 and it sounds good. But I've never used a motion controller before. How easy are these to 'free program'. The problem is that ours is not a 'typical' motion control application. I might not use any of the standard motion control blocks at all, but rather build everything from scratch. In that case, is it still easy to access all the IOs and counter channels as you would in a PLC? In essence, can I just treat the C240 as a fast PLC with fast on-board IOs? Would Step 7 programming knowledge be enough to handle this programming?

 

[JRW]

Hi JRW. I was travelling and could see your post just now. Thanks for the pointer. I did some quick reading on the C240 and it sounds good. But I've never used a motion controller before. How easy are these to 'free program'. The problem is that ours is not a 'typical' motion control application. I might not use any of the standard motion control blocks at all, but rather build everything from scratch. In that case, is it still easy to access all the IOs and counter channels as you would in a PLC?


In essence, can I just treat the C240 as a fast PLC with fast on-board IOs? Would Step 7 programming knowledge be enough to handle this programming?

The Simotion C240 can be programmed in Structured Text, Motion Control Charts (like S7 Graph but more advanced), Ladder/FBD and Drive Control Charts (CFC for Simotion). It goes without saying that it does camming,gearing, interpolation...etc...The scan time is fast enough to create your own blocks and call them from motion control tasks or a few dozen other type tasks if you wish.
Yes, you can treat this controller as just a fast PLC too.
Simotion is programmed with a package call Scout. This programs all the functions for Simotion plus the drives (Siemens Drives). Scout can integrate with Step7 too, but it is really just launched from Step7 and again all the tools reside in Scout.
Have Siemens come in and give you a demo. This system is very nice and fast.
I know its alot cheaper than the FM458 plus you need D7-SYS for the 458.
If you like the CFC for the 458, you will see it in Drive Control Charts for Simotion.
I would recommend taking a class but if you go through the "Quick Start" manuals and take your time, a 2 axis application should be pretty easy.

I hope this helps


http://www.automation.siemens.com/mc/mc-sol/en/e81063c5-bdca-11d5-86dc-080006278927/index.aspx

 

[bkottaras]

The Simotion C240 can be programmed in Structured Text, Motion Control Charts (like S7 Graph but more advanced), Ladder/FBD and Drive Control Charts (CFC for Simotion). It goes without saying that it does camming,gearing, interpolation...etc...The scan time is fast enough to create your own blocks and call them from motion control tasks or a few dozen other type tasks if you wish.
Yes, you can treat this controller as just a fast PLC too.
Simotion is programmed with a package call Scout. This programs all the functions for Simotion plus the drives (Siemens Drives). Scout can integrate with Step7 too, but it is really just launched from Step7 and again all the tools reside in Scout.
Have Siemens come in and give you a demo. This system is very nice and fast.
I know its alot cheaper than the FM458 plus you need D7-SYS for the 458.
If you like the CFC for the 458, you will see it in Drive Control Charts for Simotion.
I would recommend taking a class but if you go through the "Quick Start" manuals and take your time, a 2 axis application should be pretty easy.

I hope this helps


http://www.automation.siemens.com/mc/mc-sol/en/e81063c5-bdca-11d5-86dc-080006278927/index.aspx

Just in case, you may have to pay extra for the technology objects (functions) such as gearing,camming and stuff.
Just buy the option and activate it and off you go using the same controller.

 

[JRW]

Just in case, you may have to pay extra for the technology objects (functions) such as gearing,camming and stuff.
Just buy the option and activate it and off you go using the same controller.

Or test it and use it with the blinking SF light.
Purchase it later.

 

[CharlesM]

Tell us more about the application. I bet you can purchase 2 of Peter's motion controllers for what it would cost to use Simotion.

 

[RollingPin]

Tell us more about the application. I bet you can purchase 2 of Peter's motion controllers for what it would cost to use Simotion.

Simotion sounds good for me for a couple of reasons.
A) This application once developed and tested would be productized by us. When I am on a Siemens platform, I'll rarely have a problem of acceptability by customers.
B) We are now beginning to work a lot with Siemens (we migrated from working in ABB) and so, it makes more sense for us to use their products from product support, familiarity and pricing perspectives. I saw a list price of approx. 5000USD for a C240. That's not too bad for our application after discounts.


Thanks JRW. You've more or less helped me make up my mind. I'll get the Siemens guys over in the next couple of days.

 

[CharlesM]

Siemens has other options that may work. They have technology CPU's that will do motion. I also think they have some options for steppers in the ET200S racks.

 

[bkottaras]

Siemens has other options that may work. They have technology CPU's that will do motion. I also think they have some options for steppers in the ET200S racks.

As Charles mentioned, Siemens has other options such as:
Simotion C - Controller based (PLC Technology CPU)
Simotion D Drive based and Sinamics (though you could still use 611Us and such) will be what you'll use if you opt for it.
Simotion P - Panel based (HMI panel)

You may be able to use the D package or the P package instead of a Controller (PLC) based Technology CPU C package that will also do machine control for you not just motion.

Simotion is NOT just motion control but a complete machine control package.

317's and 319's are their latest technology CPUs.

 

[shooter]

yes wago is possible however look at beckhoff they have more software for same modules.

 

[RollingPin]

Restarting this thread since I have now got a C240 motion controller in hand to test.
I find that each encoder channel occupies 32 bytes of input and 32 bytes of output address space. Where can I get a description of this address space? I don't want to use the 'External Encoder' TO as my interface to the encoder because that is limiting my fexibility to use the encoder channel. I would just like to use the encoder channel as a fast IO channel with direct control from the program. I would guess that there must be 2-4 bytes for the pulse count, a few bytes for some kind of status word and similarly on the output PI, there should be some kind of command word and a few bytes for defining cam output comparison setpoints and synchronization setpoints.