PLC Pie Guy
Member
We build a lot of machines in house. From scratch as well as complete retrofits. I have to do the drawings, the programs, usually wire them and commission to.
We do also buy a lot of new machines. I'm almost to the point where I don't want to work on somebody else machines any more. I know mine are likely far from perfect, but I do include the necessary breadcrumbs to hopefully make it easy for the guy after me. I'm so tired of not complete machines rolling in here. From many OEM. Perhaps I expect to much in my position, maybe. Furthermore, the machines we buy cost a lot. Like A lot a lot. I don't think its asking to much.
A few points Iv put together for the managers when purchasing equipment that need to be demanded from the OEM. To me, this is the fundamental stuff. Most of this is what I notice in the first minute of opening a cabinet!
-Request Rockwell on any possible Automation devices. This includes PLCÂ’s, HMI, VFD, Servo, Safety relays and safety PLC systems included.
(Factory Specific)
- Final delivery of the machine must show clear Status indicators on the processors. This means in specific, the FORCE light must be off, no forces in the processor. Also, the I/O Light must not be on or flashing as all I/O connections in the processor should be used. These two points may be in existence in the situation where work is not to completion on a system and is intended to continue at a date in the foreseeable future but never intended to be permanent.
-Processors, HMIs, VFD, NAT or any Ethernet Translation devices, Managed switches or any other device within the machine should be clearly marked, device and drawing to include and to illustrate the Firmware Revisions, Ethernet Address(I.P. Gateway, Subnet) if applicable, Node address if applicable. Further to this. All of the above must also be clearly marked, device and drawing to include any and all user names and passwords. Including the WebBrowsers, PanelView Desktop access passwords and challenge question responses.
-HMI station or any device with the capability to store more than one project or runtime file must only have 1. No unused files on any devices without further consultation with the customer as to why it exists. Likewise. No unused shortcuts in PanelView Applications.
-Backup files. A thumb drive within the cabinet upon delivery that includes the passwords and machine drawings. Includes all PLC and HMI files as well as configuration files for any NAT, ENA or Managed Switches installed pre-customer.
-Cabinet CertificationÂ…CSA, UL or equivalent. (((This will cost us more. It is the only thing on this list that isnÂ’t likely to affect us negatively without. All panels we build in house are certified, itÂ’s a show of quality and completion, usually. I would expect such from an OEM. However, most of them are not currently doing this without being required by the customer.)))
Hypothetically speaking. If you were to purchase a machine, or 2 at a time from an OEM for 175K$ per unit, wouldn't you expect all things on this list to be done? I'm seeing these machines roll in with and violating every point on this list! Again, I'm no Elon here, but my retrofitted machines with new cabinets and documentation make these expensive units look like poorly done high school science fair projects. What gives?
Management never knows the difference though. Machine looks beautiful on the outside. Works just fine, for now. These things just make troubleshooting take longer and screw up the maintenance tech before he even gets started. Then you need the magician to figure out that somebody accidentally loaded an unused PV file that nobody knows existed, just as an example of the trouble that it could cause.
I think it made the last OEM guy that was here a little bothered that I picked the panel apart on his machine while he was still standing there in front of his customer, my manager. But he needs to know that not everybody thinks his work is awesome when it clearly is lacking all of the important bits. Tidy panel layout, sure, but why not house clean when your done. I/O light flashing.... Really, your not done.
I'm perhaps only a bit sour because Ill have to deal with it for the next 20 years. Job security yes, but I already have a ton of work to do and not enough time to do it. He asked me what I thought and I told him. Now I want to see this stuff on all future machines.
Thoughts...
We do also buy a lot of new machines. I'm almost to the point where I don't want to work on somebody else machines any more. I know mine are likely far from perfect, but I do include the necessary breadcrumbs to hopefully make it easy for the guy after me. I'm so tired of not complete machines rolling in here. From many OEM. Perhaps I expect to much in my position, maybe. Furthermore, the machines we buy cost a lot. Like A lot a lot. I don't think its asking to much.
A few points Iv put together for the managers when purchasing equipment that need to be demanded from the OEM. To me, this is the fundamental stuff. Most of this is what I notice in the first minute of opening a cabinet!
-Request Rockwell on any possible Automation devices. This includes PLCÂ’s, HMI, VFD, Servo, Safety relays and safety PLC systems included.
(Factory Specific)
- Final delivery of the machine must show clear Status indicators on the processors. This means in specific, the FORCE light must be off, no forces in the processor. Also, the I/O Light must not be on or flashing as all I/O connections in the processor should be used. These two points may be in existence in the situation where work is not to completion on a system and is intended to continue at a date in the foreseeable future but never intended to be permanent.
-Processors, HMIs, VFD, NAT or any Ethernet Translation devices, Managed switches or any other device within the machine should be clearly marked, device and drawing to include and to illustrate the Firmware Revisions, Ethernet Address(I.P. Gateway, Subnet) if applicable, Node address if applicable. Further to this. All of the above must also be clearly marked, device and drawing to include any and all user names and passwords. Including the WebBrowsers, PanelView Desktop access passwords and challenge question responses.
-HMI station or any device with the capability to store more than one project or runtime file must only have 1. No unused files on any devices without further consultation with the customer as to why it exists. Likewise. No unused shortcuts in PanelView Applications.
-Backup files. A thumb drive within the cabinet upon delivery that includes the passwords and machine drawings. Includes all PLC and HMI files as well as configuration files for any NAT, ENA or Managed Switches installed pre-customer.
-Cabinet CertificationÂ…CSA, UL or equivalent. (((This will cost us more. It is the only thing on this list that isnÂ’t likely to affect us negatively without. All panels we build in house are certified, itÂ’s a show of quality and completion, usually. I would expect such from an OEM. However, most of them are not currently doing this without being required by the customer.)))
Hypothetically speaking. If you were to purchase a machine, or 2 at a time from an OEM for 175K$ per unit, wouldn't you expect all things on this list to be done? I'm seeing these machines roll in with and violating every point on this list! Again, I'm no Elon here, but my retrofitted machines with new cabinets and documentation make these expensive units look like poorly done high school science fair projects. What gives?
Management never knows the difference though. Machine looks beautiful on the outside. Works just fine, for now. These things just make troubleshooting take longer and screw up the maintenance tech before he even gets started. Then you need the magician to figure out that somebody accidentally loaded an unused PV file that nobody knows existed, just as an example of the trouble that it could cause.
I think it made the last OEM guy that was here a little bothered that I picked the panel apart on his machine while he was still standing there in front of his customer, my manager. But he needs to know that not everybody thinks his work is awesome when it clearly is lacking all of the important bits. Tidy panel layout, sure, but why not house clean when your done. I/O light flashing.... Really, your not done.
I'm perhaps only a bit sour because Ill have to deal with it for the next 20 years. Job security yes, but I already have a ton of work to do and not enough time to do it. He asked me what I thought and I told him. Now I want to see this stuff on all future machines.
Thoughts...