Yaskawa AC Drives

[JasonTheSparky]

We recently took on a small project upgrading one of our conveyor lines from rickety motor starters to VFD's. Until now, we have always stuck with Allen-Bradley - primarily Powerflex 4, 40, 523 and 525's. Our new management got the idea that a less expensive drive is the way to go, despite us electricians telling them using some off-the-wall brand that none of us have ever heard of wouldn't be in our best interest. So, some local rep. brought in this drive insisting that it is just as good as the PF's but for less cost. Our department manager said he contacted some other facilities that use these, and according to them they have had success with them. He neglected to say what kind of facilities they were utilized in. Around here, drives are susceptible to high heat, moisture, long run hours and a lot of starting and stopping. Basically, we torture test them.

So my question is: Have any of you ever used this brand, particularly this drive (J1000)? We have installed about 6 of them so far and initially my opinion of them is not great. You can't even mount these on DIN rail without an accessory kit! Jerks. They have been in operation for about 2 weeks, and none have failed yet - I'll give them that. I think some of my bias is because I am too used to the Allen-Bradley/Rockwell Automation way of doing things though, such as menu layouts, terminology, PC connectivity, etc. What do you guys think?

 

[LadderLogic]

In the world of motion, Yaskawa is a VERY reputable brand. Expect the documentation to be a bit hard to read comparing to Allen-Bradleys, as it is a Japanese company. But other that that, it is hard to go wrong with them.

They do have good tech support people in the US.

 

[jraef]

Among the Japanese / Asian drive mfrs, I'd likely rank Yaskawa in the top 3. There is nothing wrong with them that is not common to all Japanese drive designs that I'm aware of; they are not inherently designed for North American power systems. By that I mean in pretty much every country in the world outside of North America, power systems are always Wye (what they would call Star) so the voltage reference to ground is never more than 58% of the line to line voltage. That puts a lot less stress on the components, so they can be designed less expensively with that in mind, which is what they all do and they end up less expensive than drives built FOR us. Even if built in Asia as almost all small drives are now, it's the design PHILOSOPHY I'm referring to. Companies like Yaskawa see North America as a small part of their word wide market, so from a corporate standpoint it's no big deal if they miss the boat with us. They don't bother addressing all of our needs if it ends up being something of no benefit to the majority of their customer base. Drives designed FOR the North American market will have power devices selected for the worst case scenario, a Delta power system or a Resistance Grounded Wye, by using those rated for the possibility of a line to ground reference being the same as line to line. Those components cost more, plain and simple.

In the Yaskawa manual you would never see this power issue raised, they just ignored it altogether unless you later had a problem (it may be different now it's been a while since I looked). Then if something goes wrong and you said you connected it to a Delta power system, they said "Oh, well, you can't do THAT!"

But if you are connecting to a solidly grounded Wye power system (i.e. not resistance grounded), you should not see any issues in that regard.

You will also find however some features you may be used to are missing in the Yaskawa drive, as well as features they offer that are not found in A-B drives. The main thing I have noticed over the years is the difference in support. Yaskawa has good support in some areas, almost none in others.

There is no "free lunch", so if you keep that in mind and accept the consequences, you'll be able to adjust. But are these really that much less expensive? I've not found that to be the case, they are usually neck and neck. So be wary of a low-ball supplier selling you on their drives by leading with an artificially lowered price to get you to call them, then later bumping the pricing bit by bit to get to where they really want to be.

 

[rupej]

I worked at a plant that used them, and reportedly they gave no issues, and were used to replace Reliance Electric drives that were giving issues. Dirty environment (ash) and some hot/cold exposure. Hooked up to Delta source.

But I never was hands-on with them, and I've heard they can be annoying to program, although most things are until you become familiar. I wasn't aware of the lack of inherit DIN-rail mounting- thanks for the heads up!

In my area they are less than half the cost of a PF523, my normal go-to drive. I've been meaning to test one out but have yet to commit.

 

[milmat1]

I have been using Yaskawa drives for many many years. I prefer them over all other brands in most applications. There tech support is awesome. I have three V1000's in a project here now...

And when it comes to servo motion Yaskawa is just unbeatable..

 

[rkicklighter]

I replaced 12 Danfoss drives with Yaskawa at a data-center about 5 years ago. All of these are 15 to 40 HP running pumps and fans on a cooling system. All are controlled by Modbus from a master cooling PLC system and have worked flawlessly.

Way better than the Danfoss they replaced!

 

[OkiePC]

I agree with the previous comments. I worked in a plant which had a bank of them I didn't know existed for three years, so that speaks to their reliability.

I recently had to commission a pair on Modbus and it was a pain to sort through the manuals and finish the interpretation to get it working. I also don't care for the HIM menus, but like anything else, once you get through it the first time, it is pretty easy to repeat.

 

[Helliana]

I have no experience with their newer drives, but we have several of their older drives. Most of the drives we have are in the 150 HP range. They are somewhat of a pain to program (but a lot of that is just their age), but they have been far more reliable than the AB drives we replaced them with. I think the main reason we swapped to AB drives is because we have a lot better local support from AB.

 

[kolyur]

We recently started using Yaskawa V1000 series drives (one step up from the J1000 you mention). Our previous go-to drive had been AB Powerflex, mainly 4/40/523, and we were looking for something less expensive and more compact. Actually the reason I first tried them out is that I needed to use some permanent magnet AC motors on a project and none of the low end AB drives offered that feature. We've used models ranging from 0.5 HP to 7.5 HP, 230 & 480V. So far they are working great, no failures yet.

As far as the programming goes, sure it's different than AB and takes a little getting used to but it's not inherently more difficult. I can zip around in the menus pretty quick now, and they have a free utility for transferring parameters. Oh, and the icing on the cake? They provide a comprehensive PRINTED manual with every drive. Yes it's a "quick start" but it's 3/8" thick. I've only had to refer to the full user manual PDF when looking up the more oddball-ish features.

There are some other nice features that you don't typically find on drives in this price range, like a safety-rated enable and lots of fieldbus options.

 

[AGill]

I think some of my bias is because I am too used to the Allen-Bradley/Rockwell Automation way of doing things though, such as menu layouts, terminology, PC connectivity, etc. What do you guys think?

You nailed it.
User comfort level <> Product performance

 

[JasonTheSparky]

Wow! Well from what I have read (And thank you to everyone who gave their 2 cents!) I apparently have gone into this little project of mine with an undeserved predisposition of these drives. I am still in the process of replacing motor starters with these VFD's, and I'm still not happy about all of the extra drilling and tapping to mount them in the cabinet. AB has spoiled me in that regard. DIN rail makes life so much better. I have learned some of the parameters as I have been setting them up, so programming them has gotten a lot easier and quicker. I am a big purveyor of PC connectivity when it comes to equipment. I love being able to jump online with a drive and change parameters with a few clicks (CCW) instead of scrolling through all the different basic menus. It'd be nice to do that with these J1000's (Is there a way?).

I can zip around in the menus pretty quick now, and they have a free utility for transferring parameters.

Where were you able to find that at? I'd certainly like to look into it! I havn't had a chance to do any in-depth reading on all of their capabilities yet, but I have not seen anything speak to online programming yet. I did see that on their website they offer software to practice programming their drives and try out different parameters to see how they affect operation, though our servers here won't allow me to download it.

They provide a comprehensive PRINTED manual with every drive. Yes it's a "quick start" but it's 3/8" thick.

Yes! We have a nice big stack of them that is still growing. It is nice to have the manual come in the box with the device. I think I might just start leaving a copy in every panel we install a drive in...

 

[kolyur]

Yaskawa has a special USB stick for interfacing with the drive. The P/N is JVOP-181 and it's in the $120 range I think. It has an internal memory so you can use it to transfer parameters between drives, and it also acts as an interface between the drive and your PC. I've used it for both functions and it works as advertised. The PC software I use is DriveWizard Industrial, and I'm pretty sure it's a free download from their website.

Regarding the mounting, they have DIN rail mounting kits you can purchase for these drives--they're in the catalog. Personally, I think screw mounting is better for these ultra compact types of drives where heat dissipation is critical. By putting the drive in direct contact with the panel backplane, you're essentially increasing the size of the heat sink.

 

[Jim G.]

I have used Yaskawa drives for years and have found them to be very reliable. The software for up and down loading parameters is DriveWizard PLus, available for download at Yaskawa website.

 

[John Morris]

Used Yaskawa servo drives in one of the nastiest plants, battery production. Lead dust in every thing. Hot Humid 24-7 production.

Out of 27 units only lost one in three years due to electrical spike in a messy thunderstorm

 

[randy741985]

You have to be willing to try equipment that your not familiar with in our Business, And my opinion is Yaskawa Drives are as good as AB Drives. I cant say if their as easy to Navigate and Program but we use Yaskawa in Harsh conditions constantly starting and stopping with dynamic brakes with no AC and they keep on running.

If not mistaken Yaskawa is largest manufacture of Drives in the world.

Very Dependable Product.