PLC Reviews. And a comparison chart.

:site: Great Job Jesper very useful chart..

geniusintraining said:

AB, Mitubishi and several others know how to build a great PLCs but there websites suck!

It would be work, but I would help... if you could but link to there price list, manuals, FAQ's, the things that you could use and cut through some of the 'noise' on there websites that take some much time.

Just a thought...

Mark

Click to expand...

I use the Rockwell website quite a bit. Between that and my master price list I can get what I need fairly easily.
Siemens and Modicons are junk though. You know its bad when their own salesmen can't find what you want!

I would be more than happy to help out getting this website/info thing improved, let me know what you need.

panic mode said:

i'm not sure i follow... why did you mention those two...?

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SLC said:

I use the Rockwell website quite a bit.

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I use the AB price list and many other things that they have also, my point being... They have a ton of information on these site but you have to wade through all of the other 'stuff' to get to it, there are many people that don't even know that AB has a price list...

i.e. if you just bought a Mitsubishi PLC a Q and you want a programming manual (and you don't want to come here and ask for a link) so you go to meau.com you choose downloads then you fill in the information about the CPU, then bam!! there you go easy... but wait... there are over 30 manuals what do I need??

I know thats its a lot... but there are several sites that you can just get lost for days trying to find something. It would of been nice if they ALL had the same format..

panic said:

just an opinion...

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I along with others value you opinion...

I may just be dreaming on the idea of having the links to the good stuf on the site that we need

Siemens and Modicons are junk though. You know its bad when their own salesmen can't find what you want!

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Now that is not fair ! Using salesmen as an argument that a website is difficult to navigate.

Anyway, I think that Siemens website(s) can hold their own. I must know two sites (the AD Mall and the Support site), and then I can find practically everything within short notice. And the content is quite complete to my opinion.

But I think that such discussions fall outside what should be in the chart. My viewpoint for the chart is more what overall capabilities does one PLC brand have. It makes a bigger difference if a PLC brand cannot do something that you find important, than if it may be initially hard to figure how to do it if it can.

GE RX3i

The GE RX3/7i supports function block diagrams, ladder, and structured text. Their support for SFCs is coming in future releases. Their softPLC does support SFCs. The series 90 supports ladder and instruction/statement list, no support for SFC, ST, or function blocks. Both RX3/7i and series 90 supports C programming.

geniusintraining,

here is what i do on www.meau.com:

just enter part number in the bottom search field.
you will get manuals related to that product. sometimes there could be 10-15 of them
but the ones to look for are:
1. hardware manual
2. programming manual

for newcomers i suggest to go for hardware manual (it is smaller download and
helps identify right product) then lookup related manuals in it (usually there is table
of related manuals). you just copy and paste manual number in proper fiels (middle one
in serarch form) and you will get most recent version of the document.
more experienced guys will probably only look for programming manuals.
that's all it is.

btw. what would be good website in your opinion, something that other companies could use as an example?


Jesper,

i am glad that someone can find his way through Siemens website. i've spent weeks searching both
AD Mall and the Support site and i still don't consider it convenient or user friendly - but it may
be matter of taste and luck (information may or may not be present..).
but the thing i absolutely can't agree is that website should not be considered when evaluating
product which in this case is PLC. imho product without manual and website is like replica watch...

PLC (or HMI or drives or sensors or safety products or whatever) are nothing until they are installed.
to install and comisison them one must rely on support of documentation and updates through downloads
(this is website) and quality and productivity of the software. if this support chain fails,
hardware products are just toys, definitely not something to rely on on critical project.
if i buy 30 motor modules, each $1500 - i think i deserve at least one little PDF manual instead of
digging for scraps in catalogs, brochures, FAQs etc. i know that next time, i will be asking your help.

i am collecting notes and forwarding my feedback and improvement suggestions to all manufacturers
of all products i use. none of them is perfect but some of them are quite negligent when it comes to
support.

panic mode said:

geniusintraining,
btw. what would be good website in your opinion, something that other companies could use as an example?

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Automation Direct... I know you need to look at apples for apples and AD has not even close to the amount of part numbers or data, but this is one of the reasons I have starting using more and more of their products, I know I ask a lot of questions here but I like to learn (love to learn) and having a user friendly website makes me go to them more.

I have installed 15ish AD's in the last 2 years and have asked very few question (for me) in comparison to the others, I think the reasoning (in part) is due to the structure.

I can or at least have a chance at getting my answer, even though Siemens has one of the best support/help (IMO) I try not to use them, but there site you can get lost in... they like AB and Mitsubishi are so large and have so many different options that they need to support its had to keep up.

Sometimes less is better...

Just like programming if its documented well and its structured well (does not have to be great, just good) you can follow it, but if someone tries to shove it all into one small program or they add to many extras, it can be overwhelming.

JesperMP said:

I think that adding a couple of rows with the relevant websites is a good idea. Maybe a "main website" row, and an "additional website(s)" row with a short comment per additional website why it is in the list.

Just post the "golden links", and I will add them to the chart.

Phil's chart looks impressing, but who will take on the task of assembling the information and making sure that it is correct ?
And with so much detail, the chart will very quick be outdated as new PLC types are launched.
And, using images that originates from the brands website or printed material can be a problem, regardles that it is used for that brand's own good.

Click to expand...

So, you'd prefer to keep as an excel sheet? How about at least saving it as a pdf in the end so even the non-MS owners can use it?

Good point about the images... I did 'borrow' them without asking so that's a no-no.

Enjoy,

geniusintraining,

is that http://www.automationdirect.com/?
i never used them but it seams really well organized.

things i noticed:
- easy to navigate
- one URL to get you everywhere
- even prices are listed
- short and clean part numbers
- listed part numbers have embeded links for fast navigation so
cable part number for example takes you directly to document containing
just about anything important including pinout.
- document revisions are clearly marked
- documentation is available as complete volumes or chapters only (can be handy sometimes)
- compact size even for volumes containing lots of illustrations
- cad files easy to find
- search engine that easily finds ANY product regardless how big or small (PLC, drive, fuse anything)
- specs are easy to find even though they are not in one place
- approvals are not listed in the documentation, user must do some legwork

panic mode score (1-10, 10 being highest): 10
in other words, you ware right, this website does look top-notch.
i wish others would be more like it...

infineum said:

The GE RX3/7i supports function block diagrams, ladder, and structured text. Their support for SFCs is coming in future releases. Their softPLC does support SFCs. The series 90 supports ladder and instruction/statement list, no support for SFC, ST, or function blocks. Both RX3/7i and series 90 supports C programming.

Click to expand...

So is it correct the the RX series is the latest version that will ultimately supercede the series 90 ? Or will the two series run in parallel indefinitely ? What about Versamax ?

panic mode said:

[..]but the thing i absolutely can't agree is that website should not be considered when evaluating
product which in this case is PLC. imho product without manual and website is like replica watch...

Click to expand...

I didnt say that the it should be ignored. But how easy to navigate a site is, is extremely subjective. If the information is available or not is objective.
If we start to discuss "how easy to use" each brands site is, the chart will never be finished. The comments about bad websites I have made myself are for sites that are way way below the level of for example Siemens, Rockwells ... and AD's sites.

I think that there can be a problem with certain brands that their main site is hard to navigate at first, or is separated into several sites. So from that I think the idea about putting the best links in the chart is a good ide.

Phil Melore said:

So, you'd prefer to keep as an excel sheet? How about at least saving it as a pdf in the end so even the non-MS owners can use it?

Click to expand...

Then I just have to figure out to "print" the PDF file without it spreading out over several pages.

Hi JesperMP,
I think you should add the Vipa plc to your list.
Vipa is selling lots of plc's in the EU to companies that usually buy Siemens.

http://www.vipa.de/en/products/

nonuke said:

Hi JesperMP,I think you should add the Vipa plc to your list.Vipa is selling lots of plc's in the EU to companies that usually buy Siemens. http://www.vipa.de/en/products/

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I think that VIPA falls in a special category, and I cannot really place it. Even if their PLCs work perfectly well by themselves, the point is that they are compatible with Siemens and have their reason for existence in either being a cheaper alternative or by expanding on some part of the performance or functionality.
Somehow the relation between VIPA and Siemens should be pointed out in the chart.
Let me think about it.

And then there are the companies that keep a legacy PLC type running by providing hardware and software that are backwards compatible, while maybe expanding the functionality.
Are they independent PLC brands, or just spare parts suppliers ?
Candidates for such an "list of unofficial alternative sources" are:
Inat, CTi, SoftPLC ... others ?

And then there are a number of really small players that I have not included in the list. I think it is a hopeless task to provide exact information about even the smallest brand.
Maybe there should be a section for small automation vendors, merely listing up that they exist and possible a link to their website.
Candidates for a "small players list":
Saia, Festo ... others ?

Phil Melore said:

So, you'd prefer to keep as an excel sheet? How about at least saving it as a pdf in the end so even the non-MS owners can use it?

Click to expand...

OpenOffice is able to handle Excel-files and is freeware, non-MS....

JesperMP said:

Then I just have to figure out to "print" the PDF file without it spreading out over several pages.

Click to expand...

In Excel, View, select Page break Preview, Move the page-breaks to side of your 'preview', make sure non are still inside the 'print'.
Select print, configure it to landscape, hit print.(after selecting PDF-printer ofc)

And I got:

Small players list (cont):

Advantech
Frenzel+berg
Idec
Jetter
Unitronics