How can this be?

Steve Wiebe

Member
Join Date
Jul 2002
Posts
68
At the risk of sounding like a newbee, how can S:FS be on in rung 1 and off in rung 2? As this plc is running, shouldn't the xio contact on rung 1 be passing power? Sorry it's hard to see. Ahhhhhh :confused:
Steve.

Wtf.jpg
 
This is a SYSTEM BIT - I believe it to be 1st scan (F irst S can)
So it only functions once when the CPU is restarted.
 
From the help:

Because the status flags can change so quickly, RSLogix 5000 software does not display the status of the flags (i.e., even when a status flag is set, an instruction that references that flag is not highlighted).
 
Steve - I dont have my notebook with me -
How is that one addressed or was I right with first scan?
 
From the help:

Because the status flags can change so quickly, RSLogix 5000 software does not display the status of the flags (i.e., even when a status flag is set, an instruction that references that flag is not highlighted).

I learn something new every day. :geek:
Thank you.
Steve
 
Because the status flags can change so quickly, RSLogix 5000 software does not display the status of the flags (i.e., even when a status flag is set, an instruction that references that flag is not highlighted).
Steve, I have been using the First Scan bit for years to reset counters and timers at start-up, so I know that indeed it does go ON.

Let me backtrack some here. I think this "trick" is similar to what a magician does with tricks that fool our eyes. We see him pull a coin out of someone's ear. Our eyes are not fast enough to get the correct signal to tell our brain what really happened. The same is true of our computer monitor screens. They do not have a fast-enough update time to show the First Scan bit as ON. Because your computer is not fast enough to record the event does not mean that it did not occur. You can set another bit that latches on the First Scan bit and indirectly know (after the fact) that First Scan has been set for 1 scan only.

Think about this. A typical PLC scan cycle is 3 milliseconds. To see a bit that is only ON 0.003 seconds, (1) your eyes would have to be like an eagles, (2) your communications link between the PLC and your computer would have to be blazing fast, (3) your monitor update time would have to be less than 3 milliseconds. I think in general that none of the above 3 events are true, and to see the First Scan bit go on, the total time for all 3 events would have to be less than the PLC cycle-scan time.

If you artificially created a PLC scan cycle that was at least 500 milliseconds (1/2 second) then you could probably see the First Scan bit go on.

For example, the S:4/4 bit is a Status bit too, and you can watch it blink on-off all day long, because it stays on LONG ENOUGH that the signal travels from the PLC to your computer, and your computer monitor has enough time to show the bit, and your brain has enough time to receive the information from the monitor screen, before it goes off again.
 
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Although this statement is not accurate:
Consider the First Scan bit similar to a computer booting up it's bios.
- Hell of a lot faster - and you won't see that
 
the part that confuses some (many?) people who aren't familiar with the "rule" (quoted above by steveb1475) is the indication shown in the screen shot below ...

specifically, the S:FS bit contains a ZERO status – so the XIO instruction is being evaluated as TRUE (as proved by the rapidly advancing "scan counter" testers) ...

but ...

even so, the XIO instruction doesn't highlight in the expected "green on the screen" fashion – so some people assume (incorrectly) that the rung logic is being executed as FALSE ...

in other words, it's not just that the S:FS bit is so fast that it can't be represented by the green highlight – the developers of RSLogix5000 decided to not represent the TRUE status of ANY instruction which uses that particular bit ...

(just another example of how the RSLogix screens can "lie" to us – and result in incorrect interpretations about the system's operation) ...

further note that an XIO instruction using the S:1/15 "First Pass" bit in the RSLogix500 and in the RSLogix5 software DOES indeed highlight "green on the screen" when TRUE ... how's that for consistency? ... many people who are VERY familiar with RSLogix5 or RSLogix500 are stumped by inconsistencies like this when moving on to RSLogix5000 ...

party on ...

.

green_not_green.JPG
 
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As a mainly Siemens (and occasiional CoDeSys programmer) I'm glad I don't have to worry about such problems!

The Siemens online view also has its weaknesses, but I know most of them, I can only hope that that there isn't a similar problem which I don't know!
 
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