Using Step5 EPROM Progger In Modern Times

miclac

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Hello,
I have a one off job to modify some Siemens Step5 software at a local factory. The PLCs are S5-100U (CPU103).
I have uploaded the PLC code from the CPUs which I will modify but I know I will eventually need to blow the EPROMs and for that I will need to get a prommer device.
Before I go ahead and source a prommer (6ES5 695-0AA11) I have a concern that I will have difficulty using the prommer device with my modern day laptop (Windows 10) running virtualbox machine (Windows XP) running Step5 (V7.23). Does anyone have experience of using a Siemens prommer (6ES5 695-0AA11) in a virtual environment? Are there any known issues with obtaining drivers or connecting to the hardware when the programming laptop is not a Siemens PG?
Best Regards
Michael
 
I've not tried it with a prommer but maybe you would be better loking for a PG635? It's about 10 years since I last did that with a borrowed PG635 from Parmley Graham.

You could also look at a RAM module maybe?

Others will no doubt comment that it's time for an upgrade but I guess the hardweare is rock solid.

Nick
 
edit: Scratch that. I see that you mention the 6ES5 695-0AA11 which is an older prommer that connects via serial.

Ignore what I wrote below ....

I have not used the USB Prommer to program S5 EPROMs, but I have used it to program S7 MC cards in a VMware (not virtualbox) with Win 7.
The USB prommer must be assigned to the VM, and then it works as if connected directly.
As far as I know the USB support is better in VMware than in Virtualbox.

However, even running in a VM with Win7 is not without issues. I have written this guide:

HOW TO INSTALL THE SIEMENS USB PROMMER FOR MC AND MMC CARDS IN WINDOWS 7.

As of STEP7 v5.5, there is no seperate driver for the USB Prommer.
The driver is included in the Simatic Device Drivers as of version 8 (Check with the "installed software" tool, "components" tab).
Do NOT install the USB Prommer software v1.x or 2.x. This may mess up your simatic installation (!) and may make it impossible to get the USB Prommer to work at all (!!).

Attach the USB Prommer to a USB port. The LED "POWER" on the prommer should light up.
If the PC is actually a VMware virtual PC, make sure that the USB Prommer is connected to the Guest (disconnected from the host).
The USB Prommer will be recognized by Windows, and it will attempt to install the necessary driver - but possibly fail.
When the driver installation fails, open the Device Manager in Windows Control Panel.
Find the USB Prommer under "SIMATIC Devices". It will not be present if not plugged in a USB port.
If there is a warning triangle next to the Icon for the USB Prommer, right-click and select "disable", followed "by "enable".
The warning triangle should disappear.


Start the tool "memory Card Parameter assignment (32 bit)" in the Windows Control Panel.
Use it to select "external" and "USB".


It should now be possible to activate the menu item in Simatic Manager "File" .. "S7 Memory Card" .. "Open".
If an S7 memory card is plugged, the green LED "BUSY" on the prommer should light up. and a list of blocks on the cards shall appear (if any).


It is possible that every time the USB Prommer is removed and replugged, that it becomes "unrecognised" in the Device Manager.
In STEP7 a message that the USB Prommer is missing may appear when attempting to open a memory card.
If that happens, disable + enable the device again, and the USB Prommer should work again.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Thanks Nick and Jesper,


I've been looking into a few options, but I hadn't thought about borrowing PG635 from Parmley Graham. I also have looked into swapping out the EPROM modules for EEPROM but the cost is greater than obtaining the prommer considering that multiple EEPROM modules would be needed.

I advised the customer that the systems are obsolete and upgrading would be best, but they chose to stick with the S5's for the time being.


Best Regards
Michael
 
I have a USB Prommer, but I'm in Eastern Europe. I have programmed S5 EPROMs in Windows XP using the USB Prommer - no problem. I also have experience upgrading S5 to S7-300 and S7-1500.

If shipping is not out of the question, I could certainly program them for you. CPUs can run without the EPROMs if they have a good backup battery.
 
Running on battery alone without EPROM is actually a real option.
There are plenty of PLCs running this way.
If you have an online adapter that allows you to easily load the program remotely if the need arises, I would say that it is possibly a better solution than loading the program on the EPROMs.

Here are a few adapters that can do the trick (I am not affiliated):
https://www.deltalogic.de/products/s5-software-and-s5-adapters/accon-s5-lan
https://www.ibhsoftec.com/epages/63444704.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/63444704/Products/20284

edit: The above adapters also allows you to easily connect PCs for example for SCADA/HMI tasks.

A more crude solution, but potentially free if you already have a PC with STEP5 and adapter is to remote in on the PC via Teamviewer or the like.
 
Last edited:
Hi Sigmadelta,
Thanks for your offer to help. For the time being though we have now offered to go down the route of upgrading their EPROMs.
Thanks and Best Regards
Michael
 
Ah, the good old days. Nostalgic flashback .....
Waiting for the EPROM eraser to finish its job, the ticking of the timer, the smell of ozone ..
After half an hour take out the EPROM and insert another one. Dont erase too many EPROMs in a row, the eraser can overheat !
Then insert the now empty EPROM in the Prommer and 'burn' the EPROM. Then put a sticker on the EPROM with the machine no and program version no - and blocking the erase window. Install in the PLC and manipulate the RUN/LOAD switch to have the PLC actually read the EPROM.
Then realise that you need to invert a logical condition in the program .. repeat all over.
 
Hi Jesper,
Thanks for the online adapter tips. I think the cost for this would be prohibitive, also we would need to install an ethernet network and a programming terminal.
As I mentioned in my last post we are moving now towards upgrading each EPROM to EEPROM. The theory being that the program can then be backed up to EEPROM just using the copy switch on the CPU and without the need to use other devices.
I'm afraid I don't share your experience with the S5's, my experience is limited to decommissioning and occasionally doing some online diagnosing. But seeing your last post I am glad we are moving towards the EEPROM route.
Best Regards
Michael
 
Yes, EEPROMs will be much easier than EPROMs. Yes, it can be programmed with the switch on the front of the S5 CPU.

About that the cost would be prohibitive, I think when you factor in that if the system shall work for many years from now, then a conversion to a modern platform will pay off in the long run.
Spare parts are less expensive.
HMI Diagnostics is much much better.
Programming is much much better.
Program changes can be simulated before implementing, and are easy to load in the PLC, and with no need to shut-down first.
Expansion is easy (because you can easily add IO via Profinet).
Remote support.
Easily log data.
..
A lot has happened in the last 30 years. Would you let an old DOS computer with some critical software run for another 10-20 years even though it seems to run OK for now ?
 
JesperMP said:
Ah, the good old days. Nostalgic flashback .....
Waiting for the EPROM eraser to finish its job, the ticking of the timer, the smell of ozone ..
After half an hour take out the EPROM and insert another one. Dont erase too many EPROMs in a row, the eraser can overheat !
Then insert the now empty EPROM in the Prommer and 'burn' the EPROM. Then put a sticker on the EPROM with the machine no and program version no - and blocking the erase window. Install in the PLC and manipulate the RUN/LOAD switch to have the PLC actually read the EPROM.
Then realise that you need to invert a logical condition in the program .. repeat all over.
Click to expand...

I remember one trip to China in the '80s sending an Eprom to a local hospital where it sat in a UV steroliser for 2 days (I don't actully remember whether it worked). Those were the days...

Nick
 
One reason for suggesting the RAM-only approach is that you may have difficulty buying the EEPROM cards.
Siemens don't sell them anymore, not even as spare parts.
You can try to purchase them from resellers, but expect to pay a hefty price.
 
Manglemender said:
I remember one trip to China in the '80s sending an Eprom to a local hospital where it sat in a UV steroliser for 2 days (I don't actully remember whether it worked). Those were the days...

Nick
Click to expand...
On a bright sunny day you could just expose the EPROM to sunlight. I think after many hours the EPROM would actually be erased.

I once was in the UK and had to update 12 machines and was under pressure to leave and catch the plane to return home. I had purchased a quick-erase gun. It practically melted, but I got the job done and also caught my plane - maybe I took a roundabout or two the wrong way around.
 
Last edited:
Thanks again Folks,
As you say Jesper the EEPROMs are expensive, but then they do seem to offer a solution with fewer hurdles compared to using the progger. Ultimately it is the customer who needs to decide on the upgrade path for their plant and right now they don't want to invest despite our reccomendations.

Best Regards
Michael
 

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