What is wrong with people?

[RussB]

They call it Ladder "Logic" because it is "logical" not all people can think in terms of "logic", not a bad thing just IS. These people should go into a different career, maybe become librarians or something similar. ;-)

 

[Peter Nachtwey]

Boo hoo hoo, no sympathy here.

Ok...I am new here and I have just spent 5 minutes reading this thread and another 20 minutes before that searching for a basic answer about how to create a ladder logic diagram for an elevator.

Use Google to search. The forum search isn't very good.

I spent about 3 days reading my text book named Programmable Logic Controllers Third edition from Frank D. Petruzella trying to finish one last homework problem I had and have not been able to figure it out yet. So, for me I spent a lot of wasted time on one little homework problem (which I do need to learn) while the next week of problems are coming up soon.

It isn't wasted time if you found out what didn't work. Not everything I try works. Some problems I work on for days. I can show you guys a doozy problem that looks simple but isn't.

So, instead of me being told to look here and look there why not just show a similar example of my problem and make me figure out how to do the one I'm working on by myself after that? Some people like me need to see how things work before we can figure the steps out.

Some people like me didn't have an internet to ask let alone a forum. We had to figure things out ourselves. Learning how to figure things out is MUCH more important than figuring out how to make an elevator work. Making an elevator work is just a nano subset of being able to figure things out. Being to figure things out is a real victory.

If I see a guy making a pizza and watch each step as he slaps the dough, then puts the sauce on, and then puts the toppings on, and then puts it in the oven and cuts it after it cooks then I can understand the reason why I slap the dough a certain way instead of not seeing an end result and wondering why do I do it this specific way instead of this other way for like 3 days in my mind. That is what I would call a waste of time.

I wonder how many failures the Wright brothers had. I know the early rocket pioneers had plenty of failures. The 3 days were not a waste of time if something was learned.

If programming elevators was easy then everyone would be doing it. Perhaps you need some inspiration and should find an elevator and ride up and down thinking about how it works.

 

[yam785]

This question is relevant to the 'search' function capability.

After reading this post, which took a while, I've decided to ask a question, which is a SLC 5/04 PID question. I've never asked it before, as I figured it would not get answers, as many would consider it 'just another PID question without research'.

As far as the topic of search function, most of the answers I've ever needed, I had seen here in the past. If there was a way that I could save post here on the site, that would be awesome. But some times there are specific questions, about common topics, such as PID's, which are best solved by posting. Take care to not pass by a post, just because it is a common topic.

Here is the PID question. I apologize that I cannot post the code:

The PID is controlling speed, to maintain steady web tension.
After a ton of research, every thing I read said to put my I and D gains to 0.0, and adjust P gain, until oscillation, and set it at half of that value. The problem is, when I put the I to 0.0, and did a bumpless transfer, with my CV at 27%, from manual to auto, my CV dropped to 0% immediately, and then accerately immensely. Yep, it made a hell of a mess.

My bumpless transfer works now, and the PID controls, as by just educatedly guessing, I came up with P=5, I=.05, D=0.0.

My question #1 is, I believe with the 5/04, I is faster the lower the number, so for this test to find gains, I should've had a high number in the I gain?

My question #2 is, even with an I gain of 0.0, if my setpoint is equal to my process variable, why does the control variable drop to 0%, and then try to respond, when I switch from manual to auto?

Like I said, sometimes there are specific questions, to common topics, which require a post.

 

[Peter Nachtwey]

Your question is good but off topic

Copy and paste your question in a new thread and I will answer.

 

[dogleg43]

What cracks me up on this site is how mad some responders get when someone asks a homework question or a "stupid" question.

Why are they upset? Why can't they just skip over the question if it is annoying to them.

Get a life!!

 

[kamenges]

What cracks me up on this site is how mad some responders get when some responders get mad when someone asks a homework question or a "stupid" question.

Why are they upset? Why can't they just skip over the question if it is annoying to them.

Get a life!!

It's all about perspective.

 

[controlled]

I have been a member of this forum for a few years now and find it a great site to learn about PLC's and programming.

I think my biggest pet peave is when some senior members blast people for asking questions that have been previously asked with out searching first. Then these same members often complain when a new member spends time searching and then reopens an old thread.

The beauty about this forum is the wealth of knowledge, and a great database of questions and answers. I agree that we should should do a little searching first, but I dont see anything wrong with adding to an old thread, even if its a few years old.

 

[harryting]

What cracks me up on this site is how mad some responders get when someone asks a homework question or a "stupid" question.

Why are they upset? Why can't they just skip over the question if it is annoying to them.

Get a life!!

Isn't that a contridiction in itself. If one get annoyed by the other showing annoyance, when can't they just ignore that

I for one, think we are all better off if we can't prevent lamers from entering the profession. McD is always hiring.

 

[Peter Nachtwey]

It is the fact that the newbs always think they are the first

As if the world started counting years using BN and AN ( before and after newb ). It is as if nothing was ever done on this forum for the previous 8 years going back to 2002 and nothing meaningful was ever done before the internet or even the writing of books.

Look at the counting bits thread. That has been covered so many times. All one needs to do is search goggle for "count two bits" or "counting bits"

Our ability to write things down to make things easier for those to follow separates our growing civilization from the those that can't or don't write and the animals. However, if makes no difference what is written down if those that follow do seek this information. It is kind of the techy version of those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. We get a lot of repeats here.

Why are they upset? Why can't they just skip over the question if it is annoying to them.

Why should we bother then? At first I thought forums were cool and saved a lot of time and made people more productive but over time I have found that this isn't the case anymore. Now they are time and productivity sinks because the same questions must be answered over and over and over and over again and nothing is really learned. The level of the questions is getting only slightly better over the years.

 

[dogleg43]

Isn't that a contridiction in itself. If one get annoyed by the other showing annoyance, when can't they just ignore that

I for one, think we are all better off if we can't prevent lamers from entering the profession. McD is always hiring.

Regarding your 1st point, I'm not annoyed by it, just find it funny.

 

[harryting]

"Get a life!!"

Just saying.. dude.

 

[Hydro Power Guy]

The current forum structure lumps all posts into one category.

Creating some "sub forums" may help with search results. If people post in the appropriate forum, a search targeted to that sub forum could sift out tons of topics that are not relevant.

When creating sub forums you need to be careful that you do not create to many that become not productive to navigate/search.

 

[TheStarr]

The current forum structure lumps all posts into one category.

Creating some "sub forums" may help with search results. If people post in the appropriate forum, a search targeted to that sub forum could sift out tons of topics that are not relevant.

When creating sub forums you need to be careful that you do not create to many that become not productive to navigate/search.

I don't know about you, but I am usually quite busy.

I log on here for a few minutes during lunch or when I am looking for answers to my own problems.

If you break it up into sub-categories, I would not have the time to look at each one individually.

If you watch, there is almost never more then one page worth of questions asked in any given day.

As said before, use google.

 

[Paul B]

I used to think the same thing about having categories here. But I doubt I would be exposed to the many different platforms posted here if I had to go to a forum for Red Lion or Beckhoff. Not that there is anything wrong with those - on the contrary they are wonderful products that I would not know about if there were Red Lion or Beckhoff sections.

BUT - sections would work as long as there was a new post link. When visiting the forum you would click on "New Posts" and see everything posted since your last visit. Of course this is the same thing you see now when you visit the main QandA page.

Sections with a New Posts link would be the best of both worlds.

 

[DC1]

Forum search results are usually especially poor because they are ranked based off of newest to oldest where as Google will take into account which thread gets the most hits. All of those threads that refer to another thread that has the answer or have the comments "have you searched the forum for the answer" will come before the thread that has the answer in a forum search. Chances are the thread that has the answer will come up first in a Google search because it is more popular

You make a very good point. The last time I needed help, which was yesterday, I googled the question and it pointed me to a thread on this site. I was trying to build a logic flip/flop(also known as a one button start/stop)for use in building logic to monitor rpm using a single flag and an inductive proximity switch. I had the answer to my question in short order. If I had went to the site and searched I may still be looking for my answer.