What's the most annoying PLC problem?

While we're ranting... lately it's been integrating with I.T. They have been one of my most valuable resources I've had over the past 5 years, bar none. Yet, they seem to insist, without doubt or forethought, that they need me to update to Windows 10 by Thursday and I say, "That's gonna be a bit tough, I don't think we're quite ready for that." Yet, I'll work with you. Doesn't seem to matter to them, they've gotta close that ticket by Friday. I say Ok, to make this easier I may need a couple of licensed versions of vmware, They say "What, this multi-million operation can't afford VmWare on a whopping "2" laptops, maybe we could put them on the cloud? Fine, I'll dredge through the sludge and make it work." But, I tend to find myself, trying to be the better man and all, and frequently running into situations where I'm REALLY trying hard NOT to say "What's that? The Circuit Breaker on your server UPS is tripped, and nobody in I.T. knows where it's located... I don't seem to have a work ticket generated for that!" Ugh.

This I can totally relate to. Most of the time they are telling me that I cant do something because its not allowed(although they couldn't remotely justify their reason). I then proceed to do it anyway.

example: "No wifi devices allowed that aren't part of the domain!!". I proceed to run a camera through a router that's broadcasting the machine name, because the machine had to run. IT spends weeks trying to locate said router, because its "broadcast signal is slowing down our network traffic".

long story short they never found it, and life goes on.
 
In the age of 4GHz processors and 64GB of memory, why does it still take 30 seconds to open a module property pop-up for a powerflex drive?

This. Finding this is true across many different software packages, PLC related or otherwise (instrumentation software).

In general, I've found just about everything (PLC/HMI related) shows signs of bad/wasteful programming in one form or another except Red Lion's Crimson. I really wish they would make PLCs...or just make it so I can monitor/debug scripts online. My programs are small enough to fit on a Graphite HMI.
 
I could make a list 10x that long for Rockwell RSLogix5000, but some of my favorites:

Aliasing - Worst invention ever. Can't alias to a member of UDT, which means you end up with a tag for each I/O point....What's the point of that? If you want to change it, you have to download the entire program....can't do it online.

In the age of 4GHz processors and 64GB of memory, why does it still take 30 seconds to open a module property pop-up for a powerflex drive?

Haha thanks for the laughs.... all of your examples are soooooo true!
 
ode to Bubba

omg, best offer ever. music to my ears. I could rant for hours.

Well in all seriousness, my email is sprucebruce901 at yahoo.com, I'm interested in hearing anybody's thoughts if they have 10 to 15 minutes to spare for a phone call. Especially any ideas of trade shows where I might talk to some folks in person.

You guys paint a pretty vivid and humorous picture of an operator bored at 2am fiddling with someone else's carefully constructed code. Not sure what we could do about Bubba in software, besides maybe some sort of limited "Bubba mode" where the controls are locked out like the steering wheel in a fischer price car.
 
The most annoying problem if you're a service technician is programs written by people with degrees in programming but no idea what so ever about automation.

Agreed. Usually, but not always, a CS degree is your worst enemy when it comes to PLCs.

Years ago, I got tired of the CE (Central Engineering) runaround I was getting over their crummy code, and told a director to start thinking PLC, not PLC++. That got me into a bit of hot water. :)
 
Night shift ~ "well Mark did something and he will be here in a few hours and can look at it" .... yep I adjusted that prox that was loose a few days ago but because I hooked up the "black magical box" (laptop) they could not do anything with it

The moral of that story is never take a laptop to a problem until you are sure you need it. 90% of the time the problem will just be a simple hardware issue and when you walk in and find it straight away the shift guy will feel silly so next time they will not be so quick to drag you in. For the other 10% of the time hold your hands up and take responsibility for the problem and you will be able to keep some mutual respect. It only took me about 20years to learn this. That was around 20 years ago and the lesson has served me well.
 
*Still OT*

How bout the Bubba who couldn't figure out that a guard switch was not made, even though there was an alarm on the HMI stating such conditions, even though there was an indication on the HMI as to what guard switch was open and even though the guard was visibly ajar . Still he manages to butcher the guard system safety wiring in the panel, blow the safety system fuse and put the processor in program mode having no clue what he had done.....

To me this looks like a classic case of management not having enough respect for the Bubbas to spend the money to train them, or willing to pay enough to get better qualified people. I see that a lot, and I feel sorry for the poor folks that have to come in and clean up the mess. But the root cause to me is a lack of training, and poor management decisions. Not the poor guy that was dressed up in a bacon suit and tossed to the wolves.


Will.
 
Still OT, but really profound...

To me this looks like a classic case of management not having enough respect for the Bubbas to spend the money to train them, or willing to pay enough to get better qualified people. I see that a lot, and I feel sorry for the poor folks that have to come in and clean up the mess. But the root cause to me is a lack of training, and poor management decisions. Not the poor guy that was dressed up in a bacon suit and tossed to the wolves.


Will.

Poor management decisions first, but there's two parts to training: availability and teachability. Actually teachability even more so.

As I've been tasked to train our bubbas, I sent this letter out.

"The time has come," the Walrus said,
"To talk of many things:
Of shoes--and ships--and sealing-wax--
Of cabbages--and kings—
Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Hi!

Been working on a training matrix and schedule and all the greatly fun things that go into planning events like this.

But, I’m at a point where I need your help. (Before you get a puffed head, everyone is getting this email. I’m separating each of you out for the sake of privacy.)

Now that the disclaimer is out of the way, I’m serious about needing help. And that in the form of getting some information from you.

As rude as this may sound, how teachable are you?

Yeah, I’d better explain that one. Prepare for some heavy stuff in a short time. And maybe a soul-searching moment.

Deep inside all of us is the desire to improve our lives and make the world better. Whatever you’re setting your mind to, whatever you’re pointing your life at, whatever goals or dreams you have, you want to succeed.

But simply wanting to succeed isn’t enough.

The world has changed—and not just in a “my kids don’t call anymore, all they want to do is text” kind of way. While we’ve been sliding through the technology revolution, there’s also been a shift in how we humans interact, and that has affected everything in our lives. The rules of the game have changed. And, that means the way to success in our lives has changed as well.

Let me put it this way: The desire to be successful hasn’t changed. But how we get there has.

Success doesn’t come to the one who works longest or hardest. It doesn’t come from who you know, what you do, or where you come from. There is on element that matters more than all the rest.

Don’t hear what I’m not saying. It’s not that these things that used to be linked to success (hard work, discipline, grit, willpower, even chance) don’t matter any longer. They do.

They just don’t matter first. Before all the other things there is one thing that matters first.

And that’s teachability.

I could give you the dictionary version of what teachability is, but instead here are two words that capture what it is, and I’ll even give you a formula for teachability that might help.

Those two words are desire and willingness. In the context here:

Desire…
… to become better
… to change
… to learn

Willingness…
… to learn something new
… to relearn what you thought you already knew.

And the formula? DESIRE x WILLINGNESS = TEACHABILITY

If you rate desire on a scale of 1 to 10, and do the same thing for willingness, you would get score for teachability from 1 to 100.

Here’s a good example. I have a desire to lose 45 pounds. I put it at an 8. But, my willingness to do something about it rates a 2, because I really like my Oatmeal Cream Pies and Nutty Bars. That puts the index at 16—not very high, and I’m not likely to succeed at losing weight.

So, here’s the soul-searching part of what I need from you. Rate your desire and willingness for each of the following. I’ll only use this to help me direct my focus to what will be most effective.

PLCs Desire _______ Willingness _______
Robotics Desire _______ Willingness _______
Sensors Desire _______ Willingness _______
Troubleshooting Desire _______ Willingness _______

Be honest here. This is just as much to help you out as it is to help me out. I’m getting too old for those 2am phone calls.

Any questions or comments, just ask.

Later!

[FONT="]Jordan Clark[/FONT][/COLOR][/I]
[I][COLOR=#1F497D][FONT="]Sr. Electrical Engineer[/FONT]
This gives them the opportunity for honesty-- for them as well as for me. I already know what their skill levels are. I need to know how much they want to put into it to improve their skills.

I could preach on this all day, but duty calls, and I sure some of you are thinking this::rolleyes:
 
I completely understand your train of thought, but I would love to be a fly on the wall as each of your tech's read every other word of that letter. 80% on the over/under for eye rolls ;)
 
Sounds like my "Director of Engineering" with his "True North" motivational nonsense.

You probably have a bright future in upper management.
 
Sounds like my "Director of Engineering" with his "True North" motivational nonsense.

You probably have a bright future in upper management.

Sure I do, but:

  1. I don't want the pay cut
  2. I don't want the series of operations
    • lobotomy
    • removal of spine and testicles
  3. What I wrote is completely true.
  4. True North is a "Follow Your Dreams" derivative
    • Yes, it's nonsense. Dreams are good, but it's better to follow your opportunities.​
In the end I can only share what wisdom and knowledge that I have. Sometimes it will sound like reproof, sometimes condescension. Whether anyone listens or not is up to the individual.
 
Sure I do, but:

  1. I don't want the pay cut
  2. I don't want the series of operations
    • lobotomy
    • removal of spine and testicles
  3. What I wrote is completely true.
  4. True North is a "Follow Your Dreams" derivative
    • Yes, it's nonsense. Dreams are good, but it's better to follow your opportunities.​
In the end I can only share what wisdom and knowledge that I have. Sometimes it will sound like reproof, sometimes condescension. Whether anyone listens or not is up to the individual.

hahaha
 
Getting farther *OT*

Poor management decisions first, but there's two parts to training: availability and teachability. Actually teachability even more so.

As I've been tasked to train our bubbas, I sent this letter out.

This gives them the opportunity for honesty-- for them as well as for me. I already know what their skill levels are. I need to know how much they want to put into it to improve their skills.

I could preach on this all day, but duty calls, and I sure some of you are thinking this::rolleyes:


I've got $20 on the over for eye rolls....

All kidding aside, you have a realistic approach of trying to decide who gets trained for what. The issue I run into is the fact that management simply will not spend a single dollar on training. The bring in new equipment, promise training, but when the time comes to pay for it.... nothing. The closest we get to training is hanging out with the person doing the startup and asking them a million questions. The problem with that is, they have their own job to do and generally don't have the time or desire to provide free training.

/start rant
A perfect example was a short time ago we added a new x-ray machine to one of our lines. The first time it was supposed to run on my shift, I get called up to the line because nobody can figure out how to start the thing up. I tried going to the setup screen, but needed a password to get in. Of course the only people that knew the password were at home sound asleep.
Well guess what? Bubba doesn't like secrets and he will make you divulge what you know at the most inopportune times. So after ringing the engineers home and cell phone for about 30 min, (Bubba is nothing if not persistent) I get let in on the secret location of the manual for the unit, that also has the secret password written in it. Too bad it's locked up in the engineers office! Well golly gee Mr. Engineer, I'll let production know that they will be down until you get here with the key to your office. Take your time, I'm here until 5AM.
The company that installed the unit offered to do operation and maintenance training on all 3 shifts before we started running production on that line, so we would have a clue how the thing worked, and more importantly how to fix it when it's not working. BUT.... They wanted $500 dollars per shift to do a 4 hour training session. Our engineer said there was no way they could justify such an "exorbitant expense". Five hours of downtime, and a 1 AM phone call... Sure we can afford that, no problem. But shell out $1500 to avoid it. No way, can't be done.

If you try to bring up any of the Rockwell or Fanuc classes, you get told to find something on YouTube. "That's just as good as going to the classes"
I personally have a great desire to learn, and the willingness to put in the effort. But where I work now, nobody cares, because the will be no training. Get used to it.

/end rant

Will/Bubba
*From here on to be known as Wubba. :)
 

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