OT: Hose to Pipe Verification

J E · Feb 4, 2016

I have a customer with a tank farm in which each of the 50 or so tanks has a pipe that connects to a manifold in a blend room. In the blend room, there are 8 hoses, each of which can be connected to any of the pipes.

The customer would like to have a verification system that would involve a PLC. For example it could verify that hose 6 was connected to pipe 38. The only two ideas I have are a complex system of numerous proxes or an RFID system (an area in which I have little knowledge). Does anyone have any suggestions or insight for this type of application?

RussB · Feb 4, 2016

I agree that RFID would be the least complex and most reliable here. I would put a reader on each of the 6 hoses and an ID tag on each of the 38 pipes. From there it would be fairly simple logic.

Talk to your local Turck rep.

nonuke · Feb 4, 2016

I agree with you both. RFID is the best solution.
You can also take a look at Siemens RFID solutions

http://w3.siemens.com/mcms/identification-systems/en/rfid-systems/pages/rfid-systems.aspx

Phil Buchanan · Feb 4, 2016

Depending on your piping and materials you are working with I have in the past pumped in air psi first though the line which makes the correct psi switch at the tank or other connection if it's connected to the right place it will allow material flow.

Many bulk powder and resin convey system are done this way but as others have said I still like RFID better.

Mark Snodgrass · Feb 4, 2016

I agree with RussB, but depending on your setup you may need to put the tags on the hoses and the reader heads on the pipes. I have used Pepperl & Fuchs RFID at a previous plant for pallets on a looping conveyor system.

http://www.pepperl-fuchs.us/usa/en/classid_1542.htm

jamesau · Feb 4, 2016

Another approach would be to use your PLC’s native discrete I/O and some logic.

Basically, you’d have a discrete output for each of the hoses (8) and a discrete input for each of the tank pipes (50). You’d fashion a single conductor patch cable that would ride on the hose; the patch connection would be made as the hose connection is made. In logic, each digital output would be fired (one at a time) for a brief duration; if a connection is established, the corresponding input would ‘light up’.

Details can be found here (yours is a type 1 system): https://www.scribd.com/doc/21244171...ctions-Among-Port-Manifolds-for-the-Process-I

rguimond · Feb 4, 2016

You may be able to use prox switches, too, if you are able to mount a "flag" on the hose ends. Another alternative would be to use something like door switches with "keys" that you could attach to the hoses.

ASF · Feb 4, 2016

rguimond said:
You may be able to use prox switches, too, if you are able to mount a "flag" on the hose ends. Another alternative would be to use something like door switches with "keys" that you could attach to the hoses.

The problem with simple proximity switches etc is that the OP doesn't just need to know that hose 1 is connected to "a" pipe, we have to know which pipe. So it does need to be a unique identifier on each hose/pipe, like RFID.

RFID seems like the best bet to me as well.

DwSoFt · Feb 4, 2016

jamesau said:
Another approach would be to use your PLC’s native discrete I/O and some logic.

Basically, you’d have a discrete output for each of the hoses (8) and a discrete input for each of the tank pipes (50). You’d fashion a single conductor patch cable that would ride on the hose; the patch connection would be made as the hose connection is made. In logic, each digital output would be fired (one at a time) for a brief duration; if a connection is established, the corresponding input would ‘light up’.

Details can be found here (yours is a type 1 system): https://www.scribd.com/doc/21244171...ctions-Among-Port-Manifolds-for-the-Process-I

i love this idea just because it is out of the box thinking, but id probably still recommend the RFID solution since it would be simpler.

Doug-P · Feb 4, 2016

jamesau said:
In logic, each digital output would be fired (one at a time) for a brief duration; if a connection is established, the corresponding input would ‘light up'.

Looks like the old keyboard scanning technique with diodes to prevent ghosting.

jraef · Feb 4, 2016

I agree, tags on the hoses, readers on the pipes. Otherwise you will need to have wires running along the hoses to power the readers. You can use passive tags on the hoses because they will only have to be read when the hose is plugged in, i.e. close proximity.

http://literature.rockwellautomation.com/idc/groups/literature/documents/br/rfid-br001_-en-p.pdf

I was thinking at first along the line of a coded decimal system similar to something I've done in the past using photo proxes on the tanks and some sort of disc with holes on the hoses that corresponded to a hose number, but with 50 tanks it gets too complicated compared to an RFID system.

Doug-P · Feb 4, 2016

NEDAP http://www.nedapidentification.com/ is another supplier.

If you go with RFID find out the price of replacement tags, some are pricey. Get something rugged.

AustralIan · Feb 4, 2016

For doing this on the cheap:
8 analog inputs.
50 of 50-position variable resistors (Potentiometer?).
50 male plugs, 8 female plugs.

nonuke · Feb 5, 2016

AustralIan said:
For doing this on the cheap:
8 analog inputs.
50 of 50-position variable resistors (Potentiometer?).
50 male plugs, 8 female plugs.

I like your idea but...
If you have a 4-20mA analog input, each pipe will have 0,32mA difference to the next pipe. This is very hard to get and maintain with resistors.

osmanmom · Feb 5, 2016

maybe OK maybe KO,

male & female plunger/limit switch,

male DI-1 & female DI-2 = 1 & 2,

male DI-1 & female DI-4 = 1 & 4,

OT: Hose to Pipe Verification

J E

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