S5 to S7 Upgrade with communication to PC

dear all,
Currently i am working on upgrading S5 to S7. In the existing S5, there is CP143 communicate to a PC using Sinec H1 and ISO transport protocol.

In S7, CP343-1 (6GK7343-1EX30-0XE0) is also support ISO transport protocol. I was thinking to keep this protocol when upgrading to S7, so then I don't need to touch the PC (which the application is writing in Visual Studio 2010). Am I in the right direction?

Please advice, or any other idea is welcome

regards
sarana.automation

I don't know if You must remember of CP's MAC-address in ISO protocol.

Ps. "sarana" is hinge in finnish.

Hello!
On CP143 you have an AUI interface I think, but CP343-1 has a RJ-45 interface only. So you need to convert your media, for example with SCALANCE media converter X101-1 AUI:
https://support.industry.siemens.co...nverters-released-for-delivery?dti=0&lc=en-WW

You connect your CP143 (via drop cable) and CP343-1 to this device and write appropriate code in both S5 and S7 PLCs' programs for ISO communication.

The addressing may also need to be altered in your PC application. In S5, DBs are word addressed whereas in Step7 DBs are Byte addressed. You really need to check what data is transferred between the PC and PLC - Chances are that it will need to be re-engineered.

Nick

seppoalanen said:

I don't know if You must remember of CP's MAC-address in ISO protocol.

Ps. "sarana" is hinge in finnish.

Click to expand...

Thank you for quick reply.
and yes the mac address of existing S5 and PC is noted already

Ps.too :"sarana" is a method, a tool to whatever you want to achieved in bahasa Indonesia

Oleksandr_Husyev said:

Hello!
On CP143 you have an AUI interface I think, but CP343-1 has a RJ-45 interface only. So you need to convert your media, for example with SCALANCE media converter X101-1 AUI:
https://support.industry.siemens.co...nverters-released-for-delivery?dti=0&lc=en-WW

You connect your CP143 (via drop cable) and CP343-1 to this device and write appropriate code in both S5 and S7 PLCs' programs for ISO communication.

Click to expand...

Thanks!
Since the PC already been upgraded to Win 2008 Server, it's already has converter to RJ45

Manglemender said:

The addressing may also need to be altered in your PC application. In S5, DBs are word addressed whereas in Step7 DBs are Byte addressed. You really need to check what data is transferred between the PC and PLC - Chances are that it will need to be re-engineered.

Nick

Click to expand...

Thanks!
noted.

It's seems I am going in right direction.
I can open the CP143 configuration file using COM143 software, but i am not able to fully understand them. Is somebody has manual or help files for this COM143 software?

From the S5 bloks, there are only 3 place where it call FB244 SEND, and FB245 RECEIVE:


JU FB 244
NAME: SEND
SSNR: KY 0,0
A-NR: KY 0,0
ANZW: FW 180
QTYP: KS NN
DBNR: KY 0,0
QANF: KF +0
QLAE: KF +0
PAFE: FY 182

JU FB 245
NAME: RECEIVE
SSNR: KY 0,0
A-NR: KY 0,0
ANZW: FW 183
ZTYP: KS NN
DBNR: KY 0,0
ZANF: KF +0
ZLAE: KF +0
PAFE: FY 185

From my understanding those two instruction has the "parameter" in CP143 where in COM143, it stay in F1: PROGRAM STF LINKS >F2 : PROGRAM VMD-SPECIFIC VARIABLES (picture attached/local definition).

and the other one is which i am not able to understand is

C DB 225
JU FB 244
NAME: SEND
SSNR: KY 0,0
A-NR: KY 0,1
ANZW: FW 190
QTYP: KS DB
DBNR: KY 0,228
QANF: KF +1
QLAE: KF +20
PAFE: FY 196

It seems the "direct parameter" stay in DB228, but why he call DB225 before (picture of that may related to this from COM143 is also attached/STF Links).

please advice
regards

Since the adressing in S5 and S7 are different, you will have to revise all the tags in your HMI.
Because of that, there us zero advantage to keep the ISO protocol. Change to TCP/IP since it is the current standard and has many advantages.

JesperMP said:

Since the adressing in S5 and S7 are different, you will have to revise all the tags in your HMI.
Because of that, there us zero advantage to keep the ISO protocol. Change to TCP/IP since it is the current standard and has many advantages.

Click to expand...

Thank you for your advice,

This PC actually not an HMI, it's only send 32 bytes message to PLC and receive 26 bytes message from PLC.

So you mean if I keep in the ISO Protocol, some changing I have to made in PC side, while by using TCP/IP I can leave the PC as it is now?

note: I just do not want to touch PC, since it's application write in VS 2010 (.NET) which I am not used to.

regards

If you cannot change the PC application, then you must investigate in detail how it communicates with the PLC.
I am guessing that the PC appliation does not directly communicate with the PLC, but uses Simatic Net either as S7API server or as OPC server. If that is the case, you can freely modify the connection type setup in Simatic Net. You can use ISO but you can also use TCP/IP whih is more recommendable.

JesperMP said:

If you cannot change the PC application, then you must investigate in detail how it communicates with the PLC.
I am guessing that the PC appliation does not directly communicate with the PLC, but uses Simatic Net either as S7API server or as OPC server. If that is the case, you can freely modify the connection type setup in Simatic Net. You can use ISO but you can also use TCP/IP whih is more recommendable.

Click to expand...

Thank you JesperMP,
I will check the PC in next visit and comeback here...
note:in the PC there is KEPWARE OPC server, but it's only use for connection to Allen-Bradley plc since I did not find the driver installed of Sinec H1.

Hi sarana,

sarana.automation said:

Is somebody has manual or help files for this COM143 software?

Click to expand...

Here is a link to Volume 1 of the COM 143 TF software manual:
https://cache.industry.siemens.com/dl/files/895/23627895/att_78016/v1/6GK1970-1AC43-0AA1_01-V2-B1-DO.pdf

Volume 2:
https://cache.industry.siemens.com/dl/files/324/23628324/att_83935/v1/6GK1970-1AC43-0AA1_01-V2-B2-DO.pdf

You can use S7 SEND/RECEIVE blocks that are S5-compatible in the S7 PLC program. The link below should help to guide you, if you "pretend" that your VS2010 app is the S5 PLC. Then it should be a matter of porting the COM 143 settings into STEP 7.

https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/document/17661306/commissioning-and-configuring-an-iso-transport-connection-between-the-simatic-s5-and-simatic-s7-via-industrial-ethernet?dti=0&lc=en-WW

Blocks FC 5 (AG_SEND) and FC 6 (AG_RECV) in the S7 program should replace FB 244 (SEND) and FB 245 (RECEIVE) in the S5 program.

Best regards,
Shawn

sigmadelta said:

Hi sarana,



Here is a link to Volume 1 of the COM 143 TF software manual:
https://cache.industry.siemens.com/dl/files/895/23627895/att_78016/v1/6GK1970-1AC43-0AA1_01-V2-B1-DO.pdf

Volume 2:
https://cache.industry.siemens.com/dl/files/324/23628324/att_83935/v1/6GK1970-1AC43-0AA1_01-V2-B2-DO.pdf

You can use S7 SEND/RECEIVE blocks that are S5-compatible in the S7 PLC program. The link below should help to guide you, if you "pretend" that your VS2010 app is the S5 PLC. Then it should be a matter of porting the COM 143 settings into STEP 7.

https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/document/17661306/commissioning-and-configuring-an-iso-transport-connection-between-the-simatic-s5-and-simatic-s7-via-industrial-ethernet?dti=0&lc=en-WW

Blocks FC 5 (AG_SEND) and FC 6 (AG_RECV) in the S7 program should replace FB 244 (SEND) and FB 245 (RECEIVE) in the S5 program.

Best regards,
Shawn

Click to expand...

Thank you sigmadelta,

Those PDFs i have already, but it's a bit different with the COM143 V1.1 that I use. Those PDFs for COM143 TF...

I am sorry that I did not understand your below comment
"if you "pretend" that your VS2010 app is the S5 PLC. Then it should be a matter of porting the COM 143 settings into STEP 7"

Is that means I can do " S7 ->ISO Protocol -> VS2010" without changing in VS2010 ?

regards

Yes, S7 ->ISO Protocol -> VS2010 is possible. Ideally, as said before, it is best to replace ISO with an S7 Connection (TCP/IP). But if you can't figure out how to do it, you can stay with ISO Protocol.

Regards.