View Full Version : Wonderware
May 15th, 2002, 05:45 PM
Hi all. My question concerns upgrading the PC that Wonderware runs on. It is ver. 5.1 B running on a 486 with windows 3.1 and an SA85 card (modbus+). My question is can I put all this on a PC running Windows 98? Is there anything special I will need to do? I'm not very familiar with Wonderware. Thanks.
May 15th, 2002, 06:59 PM
The main issue would be drivers...the old are going to be dos based, can you get updated drivers? If not there isnt much reason to change OS, stick with dos/win3.1. For that matter will the version of Wonderware actually run in a Win9x environment and not DOS? If you upgrade to Win98 and have to run from a dos mode/window you haven't gained anything overall except newer parts (which never hurts).
Here's the deal though, are you replacing the software (OS) because its old and want the system to be faster? To be faster you have to be able to run in a Win9x environment. Does it work well now but kinda slow? Old axiom...IF IT AINT BROKE DONT FIX IT.
Look at all the factors..will existing software need DOS (I say this because Win 3.x etc were still primarily dos based) or can it be used in WIN9x? Can I get drivers for the card for win9x? How much will it cost to upgrade the existing software for use in Win 9x? What changes will have to be made to existing software or with upgraded software to system to run from Win9x?
May 15th, 2002, 09:59 PM
Ron's got it right - if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
You want to move the SA85 card to the new PC. If memory serves, that's an old ISA bus card. Does your new PC, even if it was formatted with Win 3.1, support ISA cards, or only PCI? The clock speed will be faster - can the old card keep up (a problem with AB KT cards)?
Unfortunately, there is no certain way to know. You can contact Schneider (né Modicon) and they might tell you which PC buses have been known to work, or what to watch out for, but it's a **** shoot.
That's the hardware - now for software. If memory serves (I haven't had to think about these kinds of upgrades since the Y2K era, when everyone was ditching these kinds of systems) Win 3.1 is an 8-bit OS. Win98 is a 32-bit OS. I think Win98 has a sort of 8-bit shell that it can run 8-bit programs, but I wouldn't give you 2-bits for it.
A better option would be to upgrade the Wonderware app to the latest version, running on the latest OS (NT/Win2K) Fortunately for you, Wonderware upgrades more seamlessly than any other SCADA package. The graphics were always object-orented, the scripting language hasn't changed (at least they haven't taken anything away). So that part of it will be OK.
What might bite you is the other things the system does. Printing and datalogging technology has changed greatly since the DOS era. It used to be you just sent an ASCII string (with carriage returns - when was the last time you saw a typewriter with a carriage that had to 'return?') to the printer or a file. Now there's a ton of formatting that has to accompany it. Laser printers have replaced dot matrix, relational databases have replaced text files. You'll want to look hard at all the system does before answering whether you want to upgrade. It's amazing at some of the simple things that we used to be able to do that BillG&co took out of our hands.
May 16th, 2002, 05:26 PM
I agree with the above statements. But it may fail due to
insufficient disk space. Since you are running on an older PC
you probably don't have a very large hard drive. I have, in
the past, seen an application run great for a long time, then
crash during a process upset due to a large amount of data
being logged. And that is just when you need the historical
data most. Then you get to format the hard drive and start over.
or convince management you need a bigger badder machine.I guess it just depends on your application.
To answer your question I do believe you can run WW with
Win98. Seems I remember loading it on one of my laptops once.
After you install the SA85 card Windows should auto-detect
the card. You should have all the drivers you need.
May 16th, 2002, 05:45 PM
Thanks for the info and advice. I'm going to give it a try in the next few weeks. I'm sure the SA85 will be OK (according to Modicons website) just not sure about transfering the existing applications from Wonderware. My reasons for wanting to try this is lack of disk space, slow speed and a desire to add more screens. I'll post how it works out.
May 16th, 2002, 06:38 PM
Tonmeth, one more suggestion then to make sure you get all the data moved/saved, you can use a program like Drive Copy:
to completely copy a drive to another drive. This will leave old drive intact and you can upgrade new with win9x upgrade cd..this route not only keeps old drive but allows you to check everything out on new drive without worries of corrupted files etc. There are other options available too but this is one route that assures old system stays intact if its needed. Diskcopy and Xcopy may work but are not as efficient (in my experience) as the above.
Trying to move the existing software from win 3.1 to win9x may not be as simple as it seems..the files/drivers etc that pertain to WW in win 3.1 may not work well in win9x..only time will tell. Doing it this way keeps old system intact and running while you get new system running.
Another issue that may concern you is Partitions, when you copy the old drive this way onto a drive larger than 2048kb...ie 2 gig then you have to do one of several options. 1 create the primary partion as Fat16 ie 2 gig in size or 2. Use a disk overlay program or 3. Get a program like:
which allows you to create, resize, merge etc partitions anytime you need/want too. Its handy to have if you want to setup a dual boot too.
I say all this because I did nothing but computers for several years, the things that you least expect to happen are the most likely to happen..thats not counting running into the problems you do expect.
Wish you luck...make sure you backup your data.
May 16th, 2002, 09:45 PM
Ok, I'll grant that you need a new box.
Why do you need Win 98? Why not just reformat the drive with DOS, install Win 3.1, copy everything over, and be done with it?
It doesn't sound like you're adding anything that needs the 32-bit OS. So why?
May 17th, 2002, 09:19 AM
The Modicon SA85 card that fits into ISA slots is a 16 bit card. It is not "plug-and-play". It will not work on a 32 bit OS like WIN98 without installing new drivers and libraries. You need to purchase and install the MBX Driver Suite (#SWMXDS001).
May 17th, 2002, 04:26 PM
Thank for the additional replies and information. As for the SA85 I went to Modicons website and under Tech Information for ModbusPlus they state that the ISA SA85 adapter is supported under Windows 98 and that only Windows 2000 will need the 4.20 Driver CD, but then again I haven't tried it yet. The reason I would prefer to use Windows 98 over Windows 3.1 is because all my PLC data is collected and stored in spreadsheets (through DDE) and I like the Office 97 version over Excel 3.0 So plan A is to try to do it with Windows 98 and if I can't get that to work then plan B is Windows 3.1 The other problem is I believe I'll be restricted to 568 mb with Win3.1 vs. 2 Gb under Win98 with a FAT 16 formatted hard drive. Any information and ideas are welcomed.
May 17th, 2002, 06:07 PM
Technically a disk overlay program...ie hard drive disk program can overcome the 540 meg limit set in dos. Win98 isnt limited to 2 gig technically. Dos though has problem with over 2 gig even with and overlay but you can make multiple partitions if the need is there and store data on other drives.
If this is a new system with new hard drive then with the drive should be a disk...the overlay program will be on that. Seagate, Western Digital etc have the overlay programs on their website.
June 29th, 2002, 10:49 AM
Well it's been about a month and I finally found enough time to work on my Wonderware project. This is just an iterim solution as I will ultimately upgrade to a newer version on modern-day PC's. I was sucessful in installing the Wonderware (Intouch) on a Pentium PC with Win98SE. All the existing applications installed and run with only a minor but serious problem. This is version 5.1B that was/is on a 486 PC with Win3.1 Fortunately this version of Wonderware uses a hard-key license so I am able to employ the trial/error technique without hurting the existing applications. Anyway all the Wonderware screens, spreadsheets, etc., seem to be working fine but I can't get live data. The problem is where I least expected it, with the SA85 card or drivers, I am not able to communicate with the MB+ network. I guess I shouldn't be surprised since Jim Dungar stated I would need new drivers for the SA85 to work on Win98. How much do the new drivers cost or is there way to make the existing ones work, like through the 'add new hardware' function or something? The drivers I have were for DOS but there are also OS/2 drivers that I haven't tried yet. I also want to thank everyone who responded to my previous posts.
June 29th, 2002, 10:35 PM
Taken from the Modicon website:
Modicon FAQ page (http://www.modicon.com/85256BC80062EFB7/all/03FB4F394633A64585256BDE004FD0DC!OpenDocument)
Can the Modbus Plus drivers for the SA85 or PCMCIA adapter be downloaded from any website?
The Modbus Plus drivers are a licensed product. and are not posted on our website.
These drivers must be purchased form your local sales representative.
The current Modbus Plus driver part number is : SWMXDS001
This CD contains the Modbus Plus Windows 95/98/NT/2000/ME drivers. banghead
June 30th, 2002, 07:16 PM
Did you check your I/O server settings?
Make sure you have your topic name, baud rate,
etc. etc. correct before you go too far out of your way.
Also, look at the card settings And driver in Windows device manager
sometimes that will kick your butt.