[OT] Technical Help... helpful?

[RANT]
Is it just me or are Technical Help desks not worth the price of the phone call? Twice last week I had cause to phone Mitsubishi technical help.. twice I went through the procedure of being passed from one person to the next, giving them all my details, including details of my question... twice they failed to phone me back.

Citect tech help are very keen and get back to you without many problems but they never seem to have anybody who can answer any question that involves anything beyond the simplest of operations on their software.

Siemens technical help... well, what can I say, I might as well ask my budgie the question. All they are interested in is telling you that you need more and more equipment to achieve the task. Getting you to replace your programming lead or buy another module. Anything that will get them off the phone.

Is it just me who thinks that if you work for technical help you should have a very very thorough understanding of what it is you are trying to help people with? If I didn't have these forums and had to rely on tech help I'd be out working as a trolley pusher in a supermarket by now.

I know that the 'user' has a certain responsibility to learn the kit that he's working with but there are certain questions, especially when you get passed the basics of what you are working on, that you need help with. Technical Help should be there to provide you with that support.

To just qualify all that, I have occasionally (very occasionally) come across tech help folk who were very clued up, but these are the exceptions. The majority of the time I wouldn't trust the person at the other end of the phone to lace up my boots, let alone answer a technical question.

Is this just the UK? Is it just me?
[/RANT]

JT

No, Not just the UK. I have experienced the same thing here in the US. AB still has a technical case open for me since 1999 and it has never been solved (DH+ comms fault on assembly of edits). Most of the answers are:

you need to upgrade the firmware
You need to buy the latest software
you need to buy different equipment
I'll get someone to call you back
Did you try powering off

I could go on but this is ruining my Friday.

Bruce

It would make a great epitaph... I can see it now on the gravestone...

"Still waiting for tech support"

All too often, my biggest hurdle in dealing with tech support has been demonstrating my competence. I don't call tech support until I've exhausted all of the 'usual suspects', but I still have to suffer through suggestions like "try cycling power".

The worst case I ever went through was several years ago. I had a serial port driver problem with communications between an HMI panel and a PLC. It would work fine for half an hour or so and then suddenly quit. Tech support insisted the problem was in something I had done in configuring the communications or in one of the screens. I dutifully tried every suggestion he offered. I created a brand new project per the instructions he gave me. Same problems. I emailed a copy of the original project files. He didn't see anything wrong with it. After several hours of this, I finally asked the tech support guy if he could possibly ask for help from the engineering group. He agreed, and the engineer said "Oh, we've fixed that bug. The next release of the software will include the fix. We can email you a copy of the upgraded driver". Problem solved in 30 seconds.

I can understand that tech support sometimes needs to ask "Are you sure it's plugged in", but they should also be able to differentiate between the clueless and the competent.

Steve,

It's a tough job. I've done my spot on the end of the tech support phone and it really isn't easy. The best strategy is to get the poor ******* onside with a bit of humour and then be prepared to WORK the system.

Tech Support lines are usually well set up to handle 95% of the problems they get, they have databases and systems in place to step you through all a checklist in order that they can eliminate the most common possibilities.

Remember that at all times the guy on the other end of the phone does not have all the information you have. You need to feed it to them in a logical sequence. He/she is not going to be able to absorb it all in a rush.

It also helps to try and convey something of the background if the reason for you call is urgent or there is a lot at stake for you. Remember they cannot read your mind. Unless you tell them there is a $10m bit of kit about to meltdown unless you get this fixed in the next 15 seconds....they possibly won't quite appreciate why you are getting a trifle agitated.

And finally remember these guys are dealing with PROBLEMS all day , day in day out. Mostly they are very professional about it handling all this negativity, but it does get to them. Try and give them credit when it is due, it makes a huge difference.

I find the variation is tremendous.

AutomationDirect wins my vote for the most responsive. They differentiate between novice questions and obscure problems, they actually load your software and try running it, and they don't quit until it's fixed. I've even had their tech support call back and tell me "We haven't gotten it yet, I've called in other staff to look at it, and hang in, we will get back to you by XX:XX with an answer."

GE support is good, but it is a little burdensome getting to the right guy.

My local A-B distributor is fantastic. If they can't handle it corporate support is slower, has more overhead, and isn't as responsive. I have seen improvement from them in the last couple of years, though, and they are overall OK.

Modicon is bad. Several layers of beauracracy, they don't seem to understand applications, and seem to be watching the clock to stay on quota. Their refusal to provide any example code whatsoever, and to review my actual code, is totally incomprehensible to me.

Siemens is incredibly difficult to deal with. There are people there with great skills, but finding them is incredibly time consuming. This is compounded by their absolutely lousy documentation. I keep getting the feeling that the real objective of Siemens tech support is selling you their contract programming and system integration services.

I understand why a lot of companies try to make tech support a profit center, but I personally think it is very poor business. The objective ought to be encouraging you to buy their products by making it a rewarding experience applying them!

Philip,

I've also been in the hot seat as the person dispensing the help and advice, so I understand what tech support people go through.

To your list of pointers I would add:

When your problem is resolved, call back to tell them. If possible, tell them which piece of advice was the key to solving the problem. The callback serves two purposes. First, it helps the tech support person evaluate the advice he/she gave you, thereby allowing him/her to resolve the problem sooner, the next time someone calls in with a similar issue. Second, but equally important, it lets the support person know his/her efforts are appreciated.

Steve Bailey said:

When your problem is resolved, call back to tell them. If possible, tell them which piece of advice was the key to solving the problem.

Click to expand...

I absolutely agree, Steve. This is what I call "improving the breed". I feel it is an obligation to help keep things progressing.

Having been on both sides of this subject, I get totally frustrated when the person on the other end when I need help just does not have a clue.

IMO, Siemens, the company does not have tech support beyond a great online library. I got tremendous support from the reps in Houston and an independent programmer.

When I call OMRON, most of the guys there know my voice from bugging them so much. Once in a while I get the newbie and have to snicker when they have no clue. But we all were there.

I have called a DRO manufacture in CA and the rep I talked to was cordial. I never got call backs and had to constantly call them. But they could not explain why their alert function did not operate at slow speeds or offer to repair the unit.

Doing tech support, I too like a call back when you get it running. That way I can bank the fix and pass it along.

I had a bud at AB training in Houston so PLC support was good if I needed it.

I too have been on both sides of the desk.
Except it was with CNC repairs within a third party repair center.
Everything from GE/Fanuc to ancient K+Ts.

But! I was not ready to answer the phone until I'd spent 4 years in the field repairing those same machines.

I know it's different in the PLC world, an almost infinite number of ways to configure and programming methods towards a vast number of output solutions.

Frankly, I'm surprised they can help at all! Give them some credit.

(Self-serving moment) - After awhile I was getting 'help-me' calls from people who were being refered to me by the OEM! (Ouch! dislocated my shoulder patting myself on the back)

Rod

AutomationDirect - Top notch support. Never had a problem that they couldn't resolve. I've even had them help me connect products to their equipment that they didn't sell, can't say that about the other big boys in the business. This is one of the reasons I like AD so much, you can't beat their prices and you certainly can't beat their tech support.Wonderware - Again great support. I don't think I've ever had an issue that lasted more than 24 hours, cept for once when I found a bug, but a patch was e-mailed to me within 7 days.

Wonderware - Again great support. I don't think I've ever had an issue that lasted more than 24 hours, cept for once when I found a bug, but a patch was e-mailed to me within 7 days.

My experience with Siemens Tech support doesnt match that of Johnny T, Tom Jenkins and Leadfoot.
Phone and email support via our local office has been competent and responsive.
I have had a couple of bad advice via online support.
I have a feeling that Siemens support in countries outside EU is a bit more thin. I guess that it is the reason why all support is now handled via a centralised support system. If the problem isnt resolved by the 1st level of support, then the case it handed to the next level - maybe from another country than where the customer is from.
I have had support phone me back to ask if problems have been resolved or not. So I definitely do not feel left alone.

The ratio between good and bad advice lies at 20/1. There is room for critique and improvement, but it is not bad.

My experience with Siemens' Support lies somewhere in the middle. On the whole I find that for more complex problems the support is fairly good, if perhaps a bit slow. Where I found the biggest problem was when I was just starting with S7 (or with ProTool), it was the simple (beginner's) questions that didn't get answered, mostly because the person on the other end of the phone couldn't understand what the problem was.

This results in suggestions along the lines of "Do 'A' then 'B'" and when you try it, it doesn't work. Then after a few more tedious phone calls it turns out that between 'A' and 'B' you also need to do 'C', 'D' and 'E' as well, but this was so self-evident to the Support guy, that they didn't think to mention it.

I agree with RMA on this and would find it helpful if one of the first questions asked by Tech Support was

"What is your level of knowledge on the PLC in question?"

Then we wouldnt get the "have you plugged it in?" as even being a Field Applications Eng for my employer when I have occassion to call Tech support of the same company I get all the daft questions as well.

With Siemens, their general tech support line has had a 0% success rate with problems I've called with (about once per year). I really don't expect more, since I kind of know what I'm doing anyway, so if I need to call them, there's a good chance that they won't know the answer either.

So, then I give the question to my local rep, and he is fantastic. He apparently has a secret lifeline to the real experts, and he always comes back with white papers, sample code, etc. I couldn't ask for more.

So, the telephone tech support is about what I would expect (I mean, if the guys on the phone were really top-notch experts, wouldn't they be working in the field?), but the support that is available through the local rep can be outstanding.