Very new, need tips

hey i'm 16 and i was taking a course in a classroom that has a whole bunch of plcs laying around and i've seen that they can some pretty cool things. not knowing what they do or what they are my dad has told me more about them since he works with them. right now i was able to get myself a SLC 5/03 and a panelview 550. I have a rs 232(com cable) and ethernet wires laying everywhere. I have a omega humidity and temperature transmiter that i'm not even sure if it hooks up to a plc or not...i just found it around some of my dads plc things he has at home. i don't know what software is used to program plcs or what kinda programs i would need. i am familiar with ladder diagrams and as i was reading around i noticed they are the main type of diagram used when it comes to plcs... can you please point me to a website or book or something that will get me started from the point where im at. I want to be able to learn some things and experiment with them on what i have right now then learn some more and advance like that. any help will be greatly appreciated and thank you in advace.!

boggie1989 said:

can you please point me to a website or book or something that will get me started from the point where im at.

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You picked the right place to begin!

Welcome to the forum and stop in regularly...

You are a lucky guy - that is hundreds of dollars worth of neat toys!

First, do the Learn PLCs tutorial at the top of this page, and if you want to buy a book order the one at the top of the page.

Other good sites are: http://claymore.engineer.gvsu.edu/~jackh/books/plcs/ and http://thelearningpit.com/

You will need RSLogix 500 and RSLinx Lite to connect to and program your PLC. I think you may be able to download a crippled version from ab.com, but others here can give you better info on that. A standard serical cable and a null modem will enable you to connect to both the PAnelView and the PLC.

You could start here


http://www.plcs.net/contents.shtml
Good Luck!

Greetings boggie,



and welcome to the forum ... as my distinguished colleague Tom said:

You are a lucky guy - that is hundreds of dollars worth of neat toys!

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and other than the innocent assumption that you’re a “guy” and not a “gal” he’s absolutely right ...



the next logical thing to do is make a complete inventory of ALL of the parts that you have available ... the ones at home ... and the ones at school ... use complete catalog numbers and post the list on the forum so that we can all take a look at it ... for example ...



1747-L532 ... processor

1746-IB16/C ... DC input module

etc.

etc.



once we have that list, we can start making SPECIFIC instructions on how to plug things together ... without the list, all we can do is offer GENERAL suggestions ... there is a BIG difference between the two approaches ... (as in "frustration" versus "fun") ...



continuing on ... you are correct ... one thing that you will need is software ... you want a copy of RSLogix500 ... sorry - but the free download version that Tom mentioned will NOT program your SLC-5/03 processor ... best case scenarios:



1. your dad has a copy on a computer at home that you can use ...

2. your dad has a copy on a company computer at work that he can bring home and let you use ...

3. there’s a copy at school that you can use ...



another approach ... some Allen-Bradley distributors will go to the trouble of offering you a “free trial” version of RSLogix500 ... it will expire after about 30 days ... but that should be enough time for you to discover whether this is something that you want to continue with ...



and ... we might be able to come up with other suggestions AFTER we get that list ...



you will also need a copy of RSLinx software to take care of the communications while you’re programming with RSLogix500 ... good news: all you need is the “Lite” version of RSLinx and it’s free ... you should be able to get a copy from the same place that you get the RSLogix500 software ...



and another big tip: hold off on the sensors that you mentioned for awhile ... those sound like analog devices ... you need to get your feet wet with digital/discrete signals first ...



regarding the PanelView ... the same cable that programs the SLC-5/03 will NOT work with the Panelview ... the SLC-5/03 is a “null modem” type cable ... the PanelView will PROBABLY require a “straight-through” cable ... (different models need different cables - but I’ve never seen one that will work with a “null modem” cable) ... we’ll work through all of those issues when the time comes ... you’ll also need PanelBuilder software to program the PanelView ... even if the PanelView won’t work at all, that should NOT keep you from working - and learning - with the SLC-5/03 system ...



finally ... do NOT spend any money on this project until you ask us first ... you’ve stumbled into some Allen-Bradley parts ... that’s probably a good thing ... but AB is NOT the cheapest way to learn PLCs ... basic idea: if you’re really interested in this field, you MIGHT come out cheaper in the long run to leave the AB stuff on the back burner - and buy less expensive gear that will teach you much the same things ... and on that note: have you been to www.thelearningpit.com yet? ...



so ... we’re waiting on that list ... and on how you plan to tackle the software requirements ... how much effort you put into that assignment will tell us how serious you are about moving forward with this project ...

and incidentally ... DO NOT! plug an Ethernet cable into the front of the SLC-5/03 ... the cable will probably fit - but that SLC port is definitely NOT Ethernet ... you’d need an SLC-5/05 model to handle Ethernet ... you’ve been warned! ... and I just hope that it’s not too late ...

Late Friday Reply

Wait a minute, guys. Were losing track of what's important in life here... Here's what boggie1989 should do:

1) He's got a nice collection of PLC stuff. Sell it on EBay. This way we get a shot at some sweet, cheap PLC parts, he gets some long green. (Or whatever the color of money is in Canada.)

2) He's only 16. Let him use the money for a kickin' skateboard or snowboard. There may even be some cash left for a body piercing or two.

There's plenty of time left for him to work like crazy just like we do. I suggest that he joins back up with the forum after all of the money's spent.

(Just kidding - I started in controls at my Dad's panel shop when I was 13. Built printed circuit boards, wired harnesses and panels all the way through getting my BSEE. This kid's off to a great start.

However, to paraphrase Groucho Marx: "I would never stoop so low as to join a forum that would have me as a member."

Parts List

So i have the box thing underneath in where all those modules go and the processor mentioned in my last post. The SLC-5/03. I never would have thought these things would be worth hundreds of dollars. As for ethernet cable, unfortunately that was my first instinct. I plugged it in and the other and i plugged into the panelview thinking they might be hooked up like that. The panel view just said correct node(s) not found or something similar. ok so here is a list of all the other thingies plugged in to my PLC that i have:

1. SlC-5/03 CPU
2. INPUT(red) 115VAC
2. INPUT(blue)DC-SINK
3. OUTPUT(orange) Relay
4. OUTPUT(blue)DC-Source
5. INPUT (green) Analog
6. INPUT (green) Thermocouple/mV
and on the box thing that hosts all these it says SLC 500
i can get a computer interface thingie from school, i think thats the null modem you talk about it looks like an external modem and it says like plc to personal computer converter or something

Found some cds

Hey i found a whole bunch of cds upstiars at my dads some titles go like this

1. LogixPro PLC Simulator, its cd from www.thelearningpit.com like real cd
1. Logic_1
2. Communications_1
3. A-B Products_1
4. Visualization
5. Panel Builder 3.7

so far i just got the logix pro sim installed see if i can figure anything out with that

This link will is to the manual for the modular chassis SLC 500 harware. It will help to familiarize you with the different components. http://literature.rockwellautomation.com/idc/groups/literature/documents/um/1747-um011_-en-p.pdf

This link will take you to the manual that explains the different processors used in an SLC modular system.
http://literature.rockwellautomation.com/idc/groups/literature/documents/td/1747-td009_-en-p.pdf

This is the Address Reference manual...the "address" used for the specific Instruction, inputs or outputs.
http://literature.rockwellautomation.com/idc/groups/literature/documents/rm/5000-rm005_-en-p.pdf

This is the Instruction Set Reference Manual....the instructions used to program the plc.
http://literature.rockwellautomation.com/idc/groups/literature/documents/rm/1747-rm001_-en-p.pdf

This manual is for the PanelView: http://literature.rockwellautomation.com/idc/groups/literature/documents/um/2711-um014_-en-p.pdf

You will need Panelbuilder32 to program it: http://literature.rockwellautomation.com/idc/groups/literature/documents/um/2711-um004_-en-p.pdf

As was mentioned http://www.thelearningpit.com has a training program called LogixPro that uses the SLC500 addressing and references. They also offer a software simulator. They are fairly inexpensive too.

The sad part is that RSLogix500 for the SLC 500 costs $500 or more so unless your dad has it there may be an obstacle. I suggest you DO NOT connect anything until you have read the manual(s). A wrong connection can make the unit useless.

All this info is avaliable at www.ab.com

The list you gave is a good start, but we/you are going to need a more detailed list.
If you look closely at the front of each card, about 1.5 inches down from the top, you should see some small text. This will be the model number of the card, the number will most likely be something like 1746-OX8 or 1746-IB16 or something similar 1746-XXXX, get it?

You are also going to need to know exactly which processor you have, you will have to remove it from the rack, and look on the side. It will list something like 1747-L532 OS301 Firmware B or something along those lines.


Ken



OFF TOPIC:
Ron, I see you switched back to your old avitar.

can't find model number

I looked 1.5 inches down on the panel and I did not see any numbers that might reperesent any model number. And for the processor I looked inside and I was guessing that it should be the biggest one and I didn't see anyything similar to the example you gave, I was looking more special for a statement of the firmware as model numbers may vary greatly. No luck with any of them!
as for the software I am trying to aquire myself some copies. as soon as this post is written and submitted i am going to frutherly snoop around upstairs for software.
so please help me out wiht where i could find those model numbers. and from earlier on in this post, do you think i did any damage to anything by pluggin in the network cable? I'm glad my router didn't blow up lol at one point i hooked up the panelview to my router with ethernet...me so silly!

There should be a sticker on each module. Here's an example of where the catalog number is on the processor...





-Eric

Greetings boggie1989,



glad to see that you came back ...



you said:

I never would have thought these things would be worth hundreds of dollars.

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yeah ... I’ve heard customers say that too ... the words “Allen-Bradley” and “cheap” just don’t go well together ...

So i have the box thing underneath in where all those modules go and the processor mentioned in my last post. The SLC-5/03.

Click to expand...

by the “box thing” I think you’re talking about the “chassis” (some people call it a “rack” - but that’s a bad habit so don’t get into it) ... the processor should plug into the far left slot of the chassis ... BUT ... before you slide it in there, take a look on the side of the processor and write down the catalog number ... see the picture below ... I’ve highlighted the label in yellow ...

PS edit ... Eric's picture really nails it ... as always, I'm a slow typist ...


if the processor is already mounted in the chassis, then take it out and copy down the numbers ... ALL of the numbers ... we’ll probably need everything before this project is finished ... to take the processor out, you’ll need to squeeze two little latches (one at the top of the processor and one at the bottom) to release them ... you’ll need the same technique for each module - so get used to it ... be careful! ... the cheapest list price on an SLC-5/03 processor is about US$820 - and they go UP from there ...



do the same “model number” thing for ALL of your equipment ... as Ken said, everything for the SLC system should start with either “1746” or “1747” ...

As for ethernet cable, unfortunately that was my first instinct. I plugged it in and the other and i plugged into the panelview thinking they might be hooked up like that.

Click to expand...

words of wisdom: FIGHT your instincts from here on out ... if all of this stuff “made sense” then the forum wouldn’t be here ...



next rule: put the Panelview aside and don’t mention it again until we get the SLC up and running ... basic idea: the Panelview doesn’t have a brain ... it can’t make decisions ... without the SLC, it’s basically a nice paperweight but that’s about all ... let’s concentrate on the “brain” (SLC) end of things first ... I’ll be glad to come back to the PanelView at the appropriate time ...

here is a list of all the other thingies plugged in to my PLC that i have:

1. SlC-5/03 CPU

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good ... the system is useless without this “brain” part ...

2. INPUT(red) 115VAC

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good ... BUT ... this is for LATER! ... but don’t hook anything up to this module until we talk about it ... SAFETY ISSUES! ... wiring up to 115VAC can shock the [choose your own expletivequote] out of you! ... when the time comes, we’ll have some suggestions to make wiring this module as safe as possible ...

2. INPUT(blue)DC-SINK

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excellent ... if you work with 24VDC for your input wiring, you’ll be a lot safer ... see the note later about where to get 24VDC for the wiring ...

3. OUTPUT(orange) Relay

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excellent ... this will be very handy as we proceed ...

4. OUTPUT(blue)DC-Source

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good ... but it will be much easier to work with the relay output module to begin with ... we’ll save this one for later ...

5. INPUT (green) Analog

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EXCELLENT!!! ... man you’ve lucked into some NEAT stuff here ... but again ... save this one for later ... this one is VERY easy to damage with an incorrect hookup ... you can leave it in the chassis, but don’t hook anything up to it until we talk about it - IN DETAIL ...

6. INPUT (green) Thermocouple/mV

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another CHOICE piece of equipment ... where did you get this stuff from? ... no, wait ... don’t tell me ... I don’t really want to know ... I want to fall asleep tonight believing in Santa Claus ... and this is another “save it for later” module ... you’ve got plenty of fish (at least a couple of month’s worth, kid) before you get ready for some of the toys you’ve got here ...

and on the box thing that hosts all these it says SLC 500

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hold on ... by “box thing” are you talking about a BLUE fiberglass box with a carrying handle? ... sort of like a suitcase? ... if so, then you’ve got your hands on an Allen-Bradley “demo” unit ... that could be good ... but then it might just make things more complicated ... basic idea: are there things like buttons and lights and other gadgets already wired up to the modules that you have? ... or are the screws on the fronts of the modules bare? ... swing the little doors open on the fronts of the modules if you need to ... but let us know what you find ... it WILL make a difference how we proceed ...



just a thought ... any chance you can snapshot a couple of digital pictures of your new toy set and post them? ... that would really move things along ...



next ... we need to know whether your system has a power supply available ... NOTHING ELSE will work without one ... it should be a square gray plastic box mounted at the far left end of the chassis ... it doesn’t slide into a slot like the processors and the modules do ... instead it mounts on the outside of the chassis ... BE CAREFUL! ... make sure that you don’t have the system plugged into a wall receptacle when you open the door ... you’ll have “live wires” inside there if you do ... but release the little catch at the bottom and open the door ... then see what numbers you can find ... it should be something like “1746-P2” or “1746-P4” or something like that ... if you’re really lucky, you’ll see two “extra” terminals ... one marked “power out +24VDC” and the other marked “power out common” ... or something along those lines ... if so, that’s where we’ll get the 24VDC power for your first wiring exercises ... assuming of course, that we’re not working with a dead horse here ...



also ... I’m betting (pocket change only) that you’ve already got a power cord hooked up to the main “power in” terminals on the power supply ... those are usually marked “L1” and “L2” and “GND” or something like that ... do you already have a cord hooked to those terminals and ready to plug into a wall receptacle? ... have you done that yet? ... did anything smoke - or blow up - or spark? ... did any of the lights (LEDs “Light Emitting Diodes”) on the front of the processor or modules light up? ... if so, which ones? ... and what colors were they? ... and was each one flashing or steady? ... all of these indications are important ... they’ll help us decide whether you’ve got a (possibly) working unit - or a nice paperweight on your hands ...



(continued in next post)

(continued from previous post)

i can get a computer interface thingie from school, i think thats the null modem you talk about it

Click to expand...

look on that interface thing for a number ... chances are it will have the number 1747-PIC on it ... don’t worry about working with that for now ... since you’ve got an SLC-5/03 processor, you might not need the PIC interface at all ... (lucky dog) ... instead you should be able to communicate from the serial port (9-pin) on your computer to the serial port (Channel 0) on the front of the SLC processor ... (highlighted in orange on the picture) ... this is a LOT easier than messing with the PIC ... CAUTION! ... if you simply MUST play around with the PIC module, do NOT connect it to the 25-pin printer port on any computer ... it MUST be connected to a serial port instead ... the ribbon cable on the PIC ends in a 25-pin connector - but that’s just there to confuse you ... (are we having fun yet?) ... you really need a 9-pin to 25-pin serial adapter for most computers ... the serial port in the old days had 25 pins ... newer computers have 9-pin serial ports (if they have a serial port at all) ... by the “old days” I mean way before you were born, kid ... times were rougher then ... we had to walk three miles through the snow just to SEE a computer ... but - I digress ...



secret handshake: the term “null modem” basically means “NO modem” ... it’s just a fancy name for a simple cable (no magic box in the middle) with a 9-pin connector at each end ... BUT ... the wires are set up like this: pin 2 at one end to pin 3 at the other end ... and pin 3 at one end to pin 2 at the other end ... (notice that the first pair of wires are crisscrossed) ... then pin 5 at one end to pin 5 at the other end ... if you don’t have one of these, you can pick one up at Radio Shack ... or you can go this way: get a “straight-through” extension cable - and a “null modem” adapter from Radio Shack ... the adapter looks like a gender changer but it crisscrosses the appropriate wires for a “null modem” operation ... need more info? ... click here ...

Hey i found a whole bunch of cds upstiars at my dads some titles go like this

1. LogixPro PLC Simulator, its cd from www.thelearningpit.com like real cd
1. Logic_1
2. Communications_1
3. A-B Products_1
4. Visualization
5. Panel Builder 3.7

Click to expand...

the titles on some of these sound like “RSRevs” CDs ... do any of them say that? ... if so, then the ones that you want to concentrate on right now are the “Logic_1” and the “Communications_1” ... note: if they ARE “RSRevs” CDs, then here’s where they probably came from: Allen-Bradley ships out a set of “RSRevs” CDs three or four times a year to keep their distributors’ software collection up-to-date ... these aren’t really supposed to end up in “user’s” hands ... or in the hands of 16-year old kids either ... but ... I personally don’t feel like calling up the software police and turning you in ... anybody else out there want to nip this kid’s educational experience in the bud? ...



so ... examine the two CDs I mentioned and see if there’s a directory/folder for RSLogix500 and a directory/folder for RSLinx ... if so, there is probably a subdirectory for RSLogix500 “Standard” edition ... and a subdirectory for RSLinx “Lite” ... each one of those should have a “Setup” icon to load the software ... secret handshake: if the installation asks you for a serial number, type in any 10-digit number ...



now the next question is this: are those CDs useful to you? ... maybe they are ... but probably not ... the next BIG (no - the HUGE!) issue is whether or not you can come up with an “activation disk” for the RSLogix500 software ... this would be a 3.5 inch floppy disk ... usually it would have the names “Rockwell Software” and “Master Disk” or “Activation Disk” on the label ... basic idea: the RSLogix500 software is usually shipped on a CD ... but ... it won’t run without a secret hidden file which is shipped on a separate floppy disk ... this is Allen-Bradley’s way of keeping every 16-year old kid in the world from having their very own copy of RSLogix500 for free ... bummer! ... but ... look around (look really - REALLY - hard) for the master floppy disk ... that would be a VERY VERY good thing to have ... and not having it would be a VERY VERY bad thing ... “bad” as in a possible “the show’s over, folks” situation ... but ... let us know what you can find ... you’ve been lucky so far ...

so far i just got the logix pro sim installed see if i can figure anything out with that

Click to expand...

the logix pro simulator is a software program for “let’s play PLC programmer” exercises without having any PLC hardware available ... it’s a good thing ... but it won’t help you at all with getting your SLC hardware to work ... still ... if you want to try your hand at PLC subjects and you can’t get the “real-world” hardware to work, then this would certainly be something to keep in mind ...

And for the processor I looked inside and I was guessing that it should be the biggest one and I didn't see anyything similar to the example you gave,

Click to expand...

my guess is that you mistook the power supply for the processor ... (you wouldn’t be the first one to make this mistake) ... the “biggest” thing is the power supply ... it’s the box at the far left of the system ... the SLC-5/03 processor “brain” is the thing with the key on the front ... the processor is the only thing shown in the picture I posted ... and as I’ve already said, you have to slide it out of the chassis slot to read the numbers we need ...



back to that picture ... while you’ve got the processor out of the chassis, look to see if there’s anything plugged into the “memory module” socket (highlighted in green) ... if there is, CAREFULLY pull it straight out and save it for later ... it will only confuse things in the beginning stages ... I’m betting that the socket is already empty ... that’s fine - you don’t need a memory module to play this game ...



also ... the SLC-5/03 has a key slot on the front of the processor ... does yours have a key in the slot? ... if so, leave the key in the “REM” (Remote) position until further notice ... if the key is missing, let’s hope that the slot is already turned to the “REM” position ... if it’s not, let us know ...



also ... I’ve highlighted the processor’s battery in red ... just see if your processor has one present - and if so, is it already connected? ... let us know ...



suggested plan of attack:



answer each and every question that we’ve asked ... as you can probably tell by the amount of time and effort that I’ve already spent on this project, I really do ENJOY this type of stuff ... but ... be warned! ... neither I - nor most of the other people on this forum - have time to waste ... if you’ll give us the information that we need, we’ll be glad to help you all the way through this project ... for free ... but if you don’t give us the information that we ask for, we’ll just sort of “fade away” and start ignoring you ... we’re all hoping that unfortunate situation doesn’t arise ... in fact, right now there are a LOT of people all over the world reading over our shoulders and wishing that they had had your opportunity to learn this stuff at your age ... we all want you to succeed at this ... so ... you work with us - and we’ll work with you ... “work” is the operative word here ...

Answers To Questions

Okie I think i've answered all of the questions in the document im going to paste below. If there is anything I missed please let me know. Thanks for all your help I really do appreciate it and I will get you all the information you need from me throughout this project!

I'm scanning through last posts made and im tryign to answer everything i can. so here is the complete list

Processor: 1747-L532
Input module: 1746-IA16
Input module: 1746-IB16
Output module: 1746-OW16
Output module: 1746-OB16
Analog Input Module: 1746-NI4
Thermocouple/mV INPUT MODULE: 1746-NT4

No it is not a demo unit it is the actual rack that I have

For power source yes i do have PWR OUT +24VDC and PWR OUT COM. I took a computer tower power supply cable cut the end off and stripped the wires and properly hooked it up to the plc seeing as i saw in the power source of the plc that it takes in 120/240VAC so I knew i didn't need a transformer. I plugged it in and it went ok nothing blew up and lights started flashing lol But im sure i hooked up the neut and ground and live in the right places and the right place.

As for other things installed to it there are none, except for some wires used as jumpers into the second last module (analog input) and in the thermocouple also there is two wires jumping CJC A+ Do not REMOVE(as labeled on the door) with A- and b- and b+ and that one also says do not remove.

After being plugged in im looking at this lights and i have the power led on as red on the power source, and on the CPU i have FLT flashing red and DH485 flashing green but at a alot slower interval. If I switch the key to run the RUN led goes green for a brief second and goes off... and i also have the second last analog input power led on as red and the last module thermocouple i have module status to green led on.

As for pictures I will try to find my digital camera but if you want more specific things to be snapshotted let me know

**** I just pulled it out to see if there is anything in the memory slot of the CPU and it was still live and i put it back in too while it was live... but the lights went back on the same way....i hope I didn't break it... i think the DH485 is flashing faster now but still green. I got three keys for it and I just put it into REM position, the battery is inside the processor and it is connected!