Zelio circuit-breaker

Bouwer66

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B
Join Date
Jan 2008
Location
Vl-Br
Posts
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Hello

I have a couple of Zelio's that I bought to control lighting in the house. The built-in relais are rated 8A and should be fused or I should use a circuit-breaker. I prefer the latter, obviously.
However, circuit-breakers don't seem to exist in 8A. There are only 6A automatic breakers, and this will mean I can only put very few lighting circuits on one circuit-breaker.

Will my Zelio die if I use 10A circuit-breakers? The very short exposure to a >8A current shouldn't be too bad, correct ?
Or should I play safe and buy more (twice as expensive) 6A breakers..

Please advice.
 
Bouwer,

There are many 8 Amp circuit breakers, but I assume that the type and model that you need is not available locally.

Because it is a home circuit, I say "do not take a chance". Do not over-size the breaker. Use some 8 Amp fuses if you can't find the right-size breaker.

The next owner of your house might see those 10 Amp circuit breakers and say "Oh, great. I can add some more lights to these circuits".

That is how house fires are started.
 
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Here in Belgium, automatic circuit breakers only seem to exist in 2-4-6-10-16-20-25-32-40 A.

Perhaps I can order some 8A breakers from another country
 
Why use breakers? Use single phase contactors. I know Merlin Gerin have these in an array of sizes. Then from the zelio switch the contactors.Rather loose a contactor than a output on the zelio.
 
Why ?
There are relays built-in. I only need to protect against too high currents or short circuits.. I don't see how a contactor will help. Can you explain what you mean?
 
A contactor will come in various sizes and they are able to handle a wide range of current depending on the model you choose.

The coil of a contactor will draw very small amounts of current, normally less than 0.5A, and are available in a range of coil voltages (AC and DC).

Contactors also come as 3 or 4 pole, with the option of auxilliary blocks as well. By using one of these you should not have any problems with output failure on your Zelio. If you select the right one for your load you will also be able fit the circuit breaker you require.

As Chud said this would be a better option as it gives more flexibility and easy replacement of parts should they fail.

Jon.
 
Jon_r pretty much explained the reasons for contactors. I would use single phase so to switch certain sections of light on and off. Rule of thumb for plc's (zelios), any relays. Dont switch loads directly from them. The contacts will get damaged. Ive seen many zelios ouptuts burnt. If contactors fail you can get them anywhere cheaply. Like here in South Africa you wont get a Zelio in every town.
 
First of all, let me say that I appreciate all of your comments - this is a good discussion.

What do you consider "load"? I am planning to use between 1 and 4 energy saving light bulbs (max 20W) or LED's (2W) with every output. That's a maximum of 80Watts per output (and the average will probably be 30W). At 230V AC that's 0.34 A - less than what some contactors require.
Will my Zelio's fail for that ?

I paid 260 euros for each fully expanded Zelio which has 16 outputs. If I would buy contactors for all 16, that would more than double the price.

These devices are coming from industrial applications, they are supposed to be very solid and proven, not ?

FYI: I was planning on using external relays or contactors for everything, except the lighting (such as turning on TV, ..).
 
Well then theres ur awnser. The load is well within range. What I meant by load was spotlights, motors....etc. When switching a spotlight the light will draw excesive power and then after a while stabelise. You never gave us the specs of ur application so we also just speculated. if money is a problem then use fuse terminals. You can still switch on and of (like breaker) by pulling the fuse and you can get the rated amps fuses easier than breakers. And yes the Zelio is industrial and very solid, and user friendly.
PS: If you really want to go big then add the comms module with the modem. Will be able to switch everything remotely from ur cellphone)
 
Bouwer66 said:
At 230V AC that's 0.34 A
Click to expand...

I thought this all started as a discussion about not being able to get 8A breakers... 8A breakers aren't your problem here!

You always size breakers to protect your loads. If your load is .34A, use .5A or 1A breakers -- not 8A! Just don't go over the 8A limit per contact.
 
I discovered that I don't need the comms module to switch remotely. I use the USB cable that is provided in the Zelio Pack to install software. It installs a com port (or in my case, on linux a /dev/ttyUSB0) and writing or reading a few bytes is easy. Then there is zelio program in place that reacts on the setting of bits to set/clear outputs. This part is proven and working. Protocol is documented in ZelioSoft help.

So I'll have a mini ITX pc with 2 serial and 1 USB cables to three Zelio's that will be the primary controller for this home automation project. If the PC fails, lighting will still work. I am also connecting a wallmounted touchscreen to that PC. Plans for the coming months.

One more question: what do you mean by 'spotlight' - both 12V and 230/115V spots ? I may have to install some 12V spots.
 
OZEE said:
I thought this all started as a discussion about not being able to get 8A breakers... 8A breakers aren't your problem here!

You always size breakers to protect your loads. If your load is .34A, use .5A or 1A breakers -- not 8A! Just don't go over the 8A limit per contact.
Click to expand...

I was planning on taking a few (3,4 or 6) of the light circuits together, to save money on breakers. Preferably as many as possible while leaving room for future heavier bulbs, which is why I want to get as close as possible to 8.
 
Guys, the breakers are to achieve the required overload protection, not for control as your contactors would be.

Bouwer,
You are on the right path. Do not neglect the overload protection that is required by various electrical codes, especially in home wiring.

Do not load those 8 Amp relay contacts to the full 8 Amps. Leave a little margin for safety. It is better to have your home wiring devices under-loaded than over-loaded. Make your target for each cirucit to be 7.5 Amps, instead of 8 Amps, to make sure the relays do not run too hot.

On lighting circuits, you can be deceived by certain types of light fixtures. For example, on fluorescent lights with ballasts (transformers), the total current used is the current rating of the lamps PLUS the current consumed by the ballast. On electronic ballasts the ballast current is small, but not zero.
 
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