Minnesota Board of Electricity.

WHO ARE THESE GUYS? They threatend a field techinican, because he wasn't a certified electrician in Minnesota. Has this happened before. Does this happen often? It shouldn't happen ever!

BTW, this field technician was a navy ETN ( nuclear electronic techician ) and an instructor. He is definitely more qualified than the petty Minnesota Board of Elecity bureaucrat.

Please don't remind me of those days Peter...

It's usually hit or miss with local inspectors. Some are great guys, other are at least reasonable, while others are, well, let's just say they're on Phil's list of banned words...

You might look HERE for some info. They even have a convenient link for 'Complaints' on the front page. Gee, I wonder why?...

beerchug

-Eric

I ran into one of those guys a little over a year ago. I was in a small town in the middle of nowhere, and this "inspector" shows up asking for my minn. credentials. I asked him what type of "license" was needed for PLC programming, heck he didn't know what I was talking about! Luckily, before it got too bad, our costumer's plant manager sent the guy packing.

So what is the deal? Field techs have to be licensed in MN to do work? Anyone know the skinny without me having to read 8 gazillion pages of stuff. Mostly I'm interested in repair of controls systems for machinery.

Walt

Ever run into a hardcore union electrician while on the job, those guys are bundles of joy.

Your right Peter, I suspect that in my case, a union electrician ratted us out to an inspector. Don't get me wrong, my Dad is a retired union carpenter, who was also a district business agent for eight years. He raised 7 kids on union wages. BUT, with the experiences I've had in the last two years with IBEW members (they picketed one plant where I was commissioning machinary) I have absolutely NO respect for them at all. IMHO, you are an ELECTRICIAN, run your conduit and wires, install your cabinets, but leave AUTOMATION to us folks who know what we are doing and make a living doing just that.

Thanks for the link Eric

I am definately going to complain.

The machine that was being worked on was being installed by an out-of-state company. It hadn't been turned over the end user yet so it wasn't the end user's machine yet so it shouldn't have been a union issue. From what I was told the union guys weren't even there. The petty bureaucrate knew this machine was being installed. It was a big event in this town. The petty bureaucrat was just harassing the out-of-state workers.

I see that no good can come from this practice. How can one get ceritified in each state? This is an obstuction to trade. The worst is intimidating people that are just trying to do their job ( being productive, creating wealth etc ).

When has a bureaucrat produced wealth?

I expect the sort of thing in other countries, but it has never happen. Usually they can see the benefits of getting the machinery to work as soon as possible.

You can tell the I-am-furious bit is forced on.

>JeffB: "leave AUTOMATION to us folks who know what we are doing"<

I can understand your point, but I'm not so sure it's such a bad thing to expect those who install and/or repair electrical controls and equipment to demonstrate their knowledge of basic electrical safety.

Many us who started out in the early years of automation have experienced what you are facing today, and quite a few responded by simply challenging the electrical exam. Most licensing authorities will make allowances for those who can document both knowledge and prior experience in the electrical field. Add a week or 2 of study, and you should be ready to sit the typical code exam. Some locales may insist on a demonstration of skills test, but purchasing a bundle of conduit may be the only cost you incur in getting ready for that. Can't get the ok to sit the exam in one locale, then go elsewhere. Not maybe as easy as I've let on, but definitely doable, and once you get the license, most of these problems just seem to disappear.


http://www.electricity.state.mn.us/Elec_lic/Pers_lic/per_expl/index.html
(b) An applicant for a Class A journeyman electrician's license shall have had at least four years of experience, acceptable to the board, in wiring for, installing, and repairing electrical wiring, apparatus, or equipment, provided however, that the board may by rule provide for the allowance of one year of experience credit for successful completion of a two-year post high school electrical course approved by the board."

Bill

Exams !!!

Of course we could take the exams in all the states and why not in the canadian provinces as well

With the possible exception of the kingdom of Quebec, an interprovincial seal will do for anywhere in Canada and is often accepted long term south of the border when electricians are in short supply.

I believe that most inspectors are pretty reasonable, and will accept an out of state and even a provincial license for short periods such as the original post suggested. If you've written a code exam, even if canadian, it lets the inspector know you're familiar with the basic safety issues and are less likely to kill someone along the way.

There just isn't anything else that one can carry in their wallet that will attest so clearly to ones knowledge in this area..... If a local inspector insists on a local license for a short hop...then it's obviously a money grab, ........but that's never been my experience and I'm betting that money grabs of this nature are fewer then this thread suggests......Heck, I'd even bet they would allow Pierre to drive in Minnesota without a state license as long as he promised to be out state by nightfall.....Now that doesn't really sound all that safe!

Bill

I sent a nasty gram. More Info

I have demanded to know what gives this petty tyrant the right to threaten people with jail time just for doing their job. Fines, and stop work orders I can understand but jail is too much.

If found the electrical representative that threaten to the techinician in jail. The name of the electrical inspector ( petty tyrant ) in Dodge county MN, is Paul Sunde.

Our guy was probably in violation of Minnesota code, IF HE WAS WIRING, but he wasn't. He didn't do wiring while there. He just tuned a hydraulic motion controller. This is something that electricians aren't qualified or certified to do anyway. There was a OEM techician that got threatened also. I don't know if he was wiring or not but for the most part they were working with the PLC and the motion controller.

As I said, there was no unions guys there and that was the problem. You need to have a certified electrician there to 'supervise'. Apparently this was a union problem. Since the union guys knew they would be gone and no one would be there to supervise, they called this electrical representative to give the OEM and his contractors problems.

In the future we will stop work, if wiring, and keep the meter running. We can just pass the costs on. Not very efficient, but if another union plant goes out of business it doesn't bother me.

The furious bit is still forced on.

I a previous post on another thread I said there is no justice or equality, you just get what you are willing to put up with if you are luck.

To quote another British rock star. "We aren't going to take it".

Peter Nachtwey wrot : We can just pass the costs on.

Click to expand...

The source of this problem will just keep on getting bigger. There is no way out.

You will have to argue and finaly strike a deal with your client. I've seen that a few times.

Your right Peter when you feel abused by this moron.

He is keeping is job security by abusing your team and I salute you naming him.

When he receives a complaint, he has no choice but to get in and inspect the work. It seems to me that he really liked doing it.

Once a similar case happened and the inspector came in, talked to us and saw how we where knowledgable about our line of work... he then let slip the name of the contractor which originated the inspection.

It was pure malice from this contractor. He never worked at that place again.

Is there a justice?

No, but once in a whyle we get to hit back.

The Tranquility of working FEDERAL

As a federal worker I am VERY fortunate to NOT have to deal with that kind of BS. I am NOT there as an ELECTRICIAN I am there as a TECHNICIAN, Facilities work needs to be done by someone familiar with LOCAL codes, The automation and control may also be done by that person but not likely. Hence not enough of us GOOD job security. It is hard enough to keep up with advancing technology, without throwing in state and local code. I travel ALL US States and Overseas as needed so it would be nearly imposssible to QUALIFY for all codes. WHEW I found a NEW FEDERAL benefit.

The local propaganda is that IBEW is the only people who can program plcs and change lightbulbs. But then, these are the guys advertising for apprentices when the local has over 600 journeyman out sitting on their thumbs. They do it all, after four years of "training" they do it all.

I gave my son four years of training, he can operate trenchers, loaders, backhoes, drive a truck, do phone AND gas line splicing, and on, and on, and on.

When the phone company was there, we took a break and watched, same with gas company. We watched, asked questions, helped everyone around us. He can now install furnace, do plumbing, roofing, etc.

The local IBEW journeyman shows up, he can't even make his own coffee.

Perhaps I'm just bitter, but then, so is his coffee.

another rant for posterity, thanks for the opportunity to vent.....casey

I was in same situation like Peter describe in Chicago ,few years ago.
We had to install baking line.
It a pretty big line, 100 feet long 20 feet wide 1200 A power draw.
To install this line we needed to hire electrical contractor millwrite
plumbers mechanical guys ect..
All of them was union guy.
Our customer told us if the union guys will know that we are not company worker and not union members they might stop to work and go home.
So they gave us T-shirts of the company. We intredused us as emgineers from the Israeli branch of the company who came to supervise the installation.In spite of that I have been told not to touch wires. (I had to connect sensors and some other thing)until they will go.I had to get UL certification for the panel they didnot made any problems because I am Israei,but when the sity inspector came one of there engineer escort him....
Over here it would not happen electrician can come from US or other country with the machine do any installation (on the walls and on the machine)
He must be follow according our code and under supervision of certificated person.
there is no union issue in this kind of thing.
To program PLCs and do electricals works under 50v you dont need any license.