Programming Jobs

Does anyone have any tips on what the best way to enter the programming field might be? I work in maintenance now and I have an associates in Industrial Systems Technology. I am taking my CCST Certification from ISA. I've only been doing electrical maintenance for the past 3 years and seems to me like the only way into the programming side is with another 4yr engineering degree. Is this true or is there an easier way? I would appreciate anything anyone might be able to tell me!

hi

hello

u can try
plc programming

for tht u can join any plc programming course
it take 3 to 4 months only
as ur electrical person u knw abt plc so its easy for u

Preston said:

Does anyone have any tips on what the best way to enter the programming field might be? I work in maintenance now and I have an associates in Industrial Systems Technology. I am taking my CCST Certification from ISA. I've only been doing electrical maintenance for the past 3 years and seems to me like the only way into the programming side is with another 4yr engineering degree. Is this true or is there an easier way? I would appreciate anything anyone might be able to tell me!

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Greetings Preston ...

my advice: try to land a job (ANY job) with an automation systems integrator - and work your way into programming from there ...

that's the path that most "programmers" I know have taken – even those who now work "on their own" ... keep in mind that jobs for "pure programming" are rare indeed – even in the best of times ... be prepared to research parts, prepare Bills Of Material, order parts, work on wiring diagrams, build electrical panels, install machinery, etc. - whatever the project requires ...

stick your nose into every "programming" opportunity along the way – AS LONG AS you can do it without irritating someone else who already has that particular job ... even just sitting at someone's elbow and watching can be beneficial - just don't give the impression that you're shirking your other duties ...

another possible path is to land a job at a plant/factory/utility/etc. that uses PLCs – AND that has their own people make modifications, additions, etc. to their PLC programs from time to time ...

reality check: with this "recession" or whatever we're in, finding jobs like the ones I've described above isn't as easy as it used to be ...

also understand that there are as many different "types" of PLC programs as there are different types of machinery ... key point: not all PLC programs "look" the same ... try to get as much "width" to your experience as possible ...

also consider that "PLC programmers" could be divided into (at least) two separate categories ... (1) the programmer who makes additions and modifications to existing programs ... and (2) the programmer who starts out with a blank sheet of paper - and writes a complete program from scratch ...

for most (but not all) people, it's usually a matter of starting out with smaller projects in the Number 1 category – and working their way up to being trusted with a project in category Number 2 ...

final advice: hang out on this forum as much as possible ... based on your "just joined today" membership date, it looks like you've been neglecting a valuable resource of information regarding your intended career path ...

we wish you the greatest success ... please keep in touch from time to time and let us know how you're doing ... (posting updates to this same thread would be nice) ...

I myself am self taught on programming PLC's the advise Ron gave is bang on the money. Now from your post it sounds like you may already have a job. If so get a tally of all the PLC's you have in your work place. Then using that ammo try to sweet talk your company into sending you on the basic level PLC courses for the hardware you have. Pretty much every PLC manufacturer offer basic courses. Like Ron stated this site is a very valuable resource for ppl in your shoes. Once you decide which type of PLC you wish to program first and can get sofware and a spare PLC and cable for it. We can easily offer materials to study and quidelines on what to cover. Luckily for you its fairly common for Electrical maintenance personel to convince a company of the need to be able to program the PLC's in their plant. The other advantage is your already familiar with Ladder logic or should be.

Which plc?
try to find a local electrical sales distributor (AB for example), and see what will they let you do in their demo
room.

ask for manuals, go online and download manuals & study them so you can become familiar with plc terminology & i/o, wiring methods.
I have an ab rep that will let me check out their demo for several weeks, but they've known me for years. i already have the software & pc.

just a thought,
james

As has already been pointed out, you are going to find very few purely programming jobs. In today's world employers are looking for people with a broad range of skills, not a singular specialty.

Before I go any further let me say that I am not trying to bash education with what I'm about to say...but there are a few cry babies here that are likely to chime in...

Degrees are great. I would urge everyone who has the opportunity to get a degree to do so. But especially for the "I have a job and bills to pay" crowd that is looking at how green that gra$$ is on the other side, there are a few things you need to realize.

There are very few degreed people that come straight out of school and are able to successfully program a PLC. To be quite frank most of them can't figure how to configure their software to download the program. It's not that they are being improperly taught, some things just are learned by doing. It's like the mechanical guy that puts a 1/2" hole for a 1/2" bolt on a fab print. When he sees all those parts physically sitting there that won't bolt together, it becomes very evident what clearances are about.

Most of these programmers that you are seeing aren't straight out of school. They've got a few years under their belt and that is what makes them valuable to their employer.

So what to do? You are in a maintenance job. I really hate that the term maintenance tech has become so taboo. I worked in a maintenance position and never would admit it while I was there. Now I realize that my time there was some of the most valuable training possible not only in repairing equipment and controls, but also building them with reliability in mind. I've never met a doctor that didn't witness a autopsy while he was in training. Why are we turning out students and have never torn apart a machine.

Does the company you work for have much automated equipment? Ask you boss if you can start looking at some of the PLC programs and hanging out with one of the PLC techs on your off shifts. Yes that means you have to stay after work, but it will be experience that you can use and build on everyday. In time I would bet you'll end up doing on the clock. If you are working for a company that doesn't have a single bit of automation, then look at a lateral move to another company.

And finally you need to realize that the world only needs so many "smart" people. Take for example Peter Nachtwey. Extremely smart guy when it comes to math, he's valued in the forum, to his company, and even to other companies such as Allen Bradley. But what if there were 2 Peters, or 10 or even 100? I'd bet some of them would be out of work. This economy is bad and I know lots of out of work engineers, I do not know a single out of work maintenance technician. If someone was to come to me looking for a maintenance job with PLC experience today, they would have a job by the end of the week.

my 2 cents worth

If you want to learn the important stuff about controls, stay in the maintenance field.

If you plant has any automation you can learn more right were you are at. To get into the programing field means you know how to program. Trust me when I tell you...you are not there yet.

You may be top dog where your at and you think you are all ready to start building machines. Trust me your not. You have spent 3 years in one place looking at one set of machines. When you see what is really out there you might just change your mind.


While you are where you are at, take a look around. If you are lucky you will find someone who has programing experience. Follow that guy like your his lap dog. With the exception of a few places I have worked I had some "old timers" teaching me. Best education I ever got.

Oh and one other thing. When you think you know it all they come out with a new version. Learning never stops.

I started out 12 years ago working as a maint. tech for a machine builder. I started out learning PLC's as a troubleshooting tool. Using it purely as a troubleshooting tool helped me to understand the communications protocols, having to use different drivers for different plc's etc. Once I was comfortable with that, they trusted me to do minor program additions, and changes. The biggest jump is from that step, to writing a program from scratch. It is infinitely more involved and difficult than just making changes (when you first get into it anyways), and requires a lot of foresight to make a program that is not unnecessarily repetitive or convoluted.

12 years ago i didn't know what a plc was, now I'm a (mostly) self-taught controls engineer and I can say that the degree will not help much, if at all. Being a programmer is not like being a doctor or lawyer, a degree doesn't mean much, you can either do it, or you can't. Most job postings for programming will say degree or relative experience, as someone who now hires programmers let me tell you that I prefer experience. Also, as other posters said, you need to be able to do more than just program if you want to find a job. If you can program, and also do some electrical/hydraulic/mechanical troubleshooting, maybe even some industrial robot programming, then finding a job a breeze.

I always have to bite my tongue, when someone say's "I want to get into PLC's and automation" Number one as alluded to in other posts, this is one of those jobs, that require experience to get, and it can be difficult to get a look at PLC's without experience... You need to be patient and willing to prove yourself time and time again. Second when working in process control, it is very much a multi-disciplined field. One needs to understand programming logic, networking, mechanics, physics, troubleshooting, and be able to work with all of these at the same time.... One needs to be able to think beyond the books and charts, and be willing to get your hands dirty. This applies to the third thing, you won't be trained on a lot of what you work on. I have often said, that I am good at not having a clue what I am doing, and still getting the job done when I'm through. You need to take what you know, and apply it to what you don't and figure it out.


With all this, I agree with TW... Peter Nachtwey is a very intelligent man, and I'm sure that he would be very good in most anything he set out to do. But out of 100 Peter Nachtwey's some would not be as successful as he is now setting out only in automation programming. Some may end up very valued in a maintenance job but not making much money, other's may never find the chance.


I don't mean to discourage you, as you sound like you are well on the path that many of us have taken. But realize that you need to position yourself where you can get opportunities, and then have the patience to show yourself capable. This might be as a maintenance tech, or a panelbuilder, and most likely start out with an opportunities to simply troubleshoot PLC's. My points above are one of the main reasons, that few simply come out of school and quickly get their hands on automation. While education is certainly necessary I think that the many skills I cited are something one is born with, rather than taught.


-Brian

This conversation has been brought up before, but is very interesting to me right now. We are ready to hire a programmer right now. I like many do not have a degree, but have been a payed as a programmer for 14 years. To me PLC programming seems to be a way of thinking, not education. I mostly use AB and I use FT ME and SE, VB is needed I struggle with it. A educated person would come in knowing VB but not PLC. We are at a place where we are going to hire a programmer some want to hire a EE. I am not sure that a EE will get dirty? I have been with some great EE programmers that I look up to, and some that make me wonder, none wanting to dig into existing problems, just new stuff. I am interested in comments from you all that hire... what are you looking for?

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