PLC Newbie

Greetings everyone. I just purchased a Panasonic PLC with the com-5 (Ethernet) card and I'm using the FPWIN Pro software. Though I have 16+ years of programming (coding) experience I have never worked with a PLC and I'm a bit lost.

Does anyone know where I can find training books and or examples for structured text using FPWIN Pro?

Thanks in Advance,
Scott

So what kind of "ExtremeIntegrations" do you do without ever using PLCs?!?!?!?

Just kidding, welcome aboard!

Do you have this manual?

http://pewa.panasonic.com/acsd/assets/panasonic/manuals/plc_general/XACG-M0130V32END.zip

Found it on this page: http://pewa.panasonic.com/acsd/downloads/fp2/

Good luck!

Thanks

Well I've been a software engineer for many years. This past year I got into the LED market so I'm integrating machinery to LED signs with my software. Now my clients are looking to do more so I'm trying to get into the PLC market so I can now add to my business. When I said newbie to PLC's, I meant "newbie" for sure. hahahah

Thanks again, I'll check out your link.

Looks like I will have to hire someone to write and example structured text for me to get me started. I'm able to connect to my PLC and upload programs to it but I don't know where to start to write the program. Here is what we are doing:

1. We have bottle extruders equipped with a sensor.
2. Each sensor triggers when the machine closes (approx 5 seconds).
3. When the sensor opens I need to count in miliseconds to the next time the sensor closes. Then I need to store this value along with date and time for each extruder in the plant.

IF possible I would like to send this information via an HTTP post to a web service every minute (or two). First thing, i have to figure out how to monitor each port (sensor) and capture the time.

Sounds like quite a project.

Unfortunately, I haven't seen too much here about Panasonic PLCs. Mostly Allen-Bradley, Siemens, and a little WAGO/GE stuff.

Give it awhile and I am sure someone more knowledgable will chime in.

If you truly want to learn Ladder Logic, the language for most PLCs, then here is a great book:
http://claymore.engineer.gvsu.edu/~jackh/books/plcs/pdf/plcbook5_1.pdf

It is free and I have learned a lot from it!

The main thing to understand about PLCs versus "normal" coding, is the scan sequence.

A PLC will run its entire program many (hundreds of) times per second. The is no stopping and waiting (I know there are exceptions...just conveying the generalities).

A typical PLC scan cycle involves reading the inputs, scanning the logic, and then writing to the outputs. Between scans the PLC may do many other things like handling external communications and checking its own health and updating status registers. Some PLCs will update the I/O asynchronous to the program scan, but the main point is that the program is an infinite loop by design, and that is perhaps the most important consideration coming from the background of programming in other languages.

Then I need to store this value along with date and time for each extruder in the plant.

Click to expand...

how many extruders – and how many events - and for how long do you need to store all of this data? ...

basic idea: PLCs aren't usually designed to store great masses of data ...

disclaimer: I know ZERO about the brand you've purchased ... but here's something to think about going forward ...

Well I've been a software engineer for many years.

Click to expand...

suggestion: write the code based on whatever language you're comfortable with ... post that, and I'm pretty sure someone will be along in the next few days who will be able to help you convert it over to something for your PLC ...

one more thing: are you "married" to the brand you've purchased? ... what if another brand came along that was better suited to your project? ...

good luck ...

thanks

Hey thanks for the info. Any information at this point is information I need. That is good to know about PLC's. You would think I'd know more before I bought this thing but I knew I wouldn't invest the time to learn it if I did not have it in my hands.

Now since these plc's execute so quickly. When I capture an input and us functions to do my processing, can the PLC still do it's work. I guess I'm asking does it work like multi-threading? I don't want to miss any signal inputs because I'm off doing some processing, calculations, etc.

TheStarr said:

Sounds like quite a project.

Unfortunately, I haven't seen too much here about Panasonic PLCs. Mostly Allen-Bradley, Siemens, and a little WAGO/GE stuff.

Give it awhile and I am sure someone more knowledgable will chime in.

If you truly want to learn Ladder Logic, the language for most PLCs, then here is a great book:
http://claymore.engineer.gvsu.edu/~jackh/books/plcs/pdf/plcbook5_1.pdf

It is free and I have learned a lot from it!

Click to expand...

OkiePC said:

The main thing to understand about PLCs versus "normal" coding, is the scan sequence.

A PLC will run its entire program many (hundreds of) times per second. The is no stopping and waiting (I know there are exceptions...just conveying the generalities).

A typical PLC scan cycle involves reading the inputs, scanning the logic, and then writing to the outputs. Between scans the PLC may do many other things like handling external communications and checking its own health and updating status registers. Some PLCs will update the I/O asynchronous to the program scan, but the main point is that the program is an infinite loop by design, and that is perhaps the most important consideration coming from the background of programming in other languages.

Click to expand...

one more thought ...

consider starting a new thread with a more meaningful title than "PLC Newbie" ... maybe: "Need help programming Panasonic with FPWIN" or something along those lines ...

reason: many forum members don't read every single thread - and your original title might certainly be skipped over by precisely the member that you need ...

Thanks for the response Ron,

This is a pilot project so we purchased a small 8 (input) plc. This facility has 33 extruders. In the end I have 6 plants to complete with a total of 99 extruders. For now I'll just focus on the 8 extruders.

I don't need to store this data at all IF I can have the PLC send some type of HTTP submit to our web service. If the PLC cannot do this then I have to come up with some way to get the data from the PLC to a computer so i can put the values into my database.

No I'm not married to this PLC brand. I was just looking for something simple and inexpensive that will give me the power that I need. Obviously you see I don't know if this PLC has that ability.

Any opinion will be greatly appreciated.

Ron Beaufort said:

how many extruders – and how many events - and for how long do you need to store all of this data? ...

basic idea: PLCs aren't usually designed to store great masses of data ...

disclaimer: I know ZERO about the brand you've purchased ... but here's something to think about going forward ...



suggestion: write the code based on whatever language you're comfortable with ... post that, and I'm pretty sure someone will be along in the next few days who will be able to help you convert it over to something for your PLC ...

one more thing: are you "married" to the brand you've purchased? ... what if another brand came along that was better suited to your project? ...

good luck ...

Click to expand...

Checked out your site. Looks good, lots of info.

Only thing missing is "Why do I need LED signs?".

Your homepage should show the value of installing LED signs. How do they save me money or downtime?

Just an observation from the peanut gallery! P.S. Nice van!!!

ExtremeIntegrations said:

Now since these plc's execute so quickly. When I capture an input and us functions to do my processing, can the PLC still do it's work. I guess I'm asking does it work like multi-threading? I don't want to miss any signal inputs because I'm off doing some processing, calculations, etc.

Click to expand...

Some of the smaller newer PLCs are very fast. I know nothing about the Panasonic line, but as long as your input is turned on for longer than the PLC scan time, then the PLC will be able to detect that state. There are also ways to get faster responses for high frequency inputs. Many PLCs have built in high speed counters that count into the kilohertz range...

Tell us about the duration of the on and off pulses you need to detect and the exact model number of your PLC for more info...

Now since these plc's execute so quickly. When I capture an input and us functions to do my processing, can the PLC still do it's work. I guess I'm asking does it work like multi-threading? I don't want to miss any signal inputs because I'm off doing some processing, calculations, etc.

Click to expand...

Most lower-end PLCs don't have multithreading capability; the entire program is repeatedly scanned over and over. But since the processor is so fast, this is generally not a problem unless you have a very large program and/or complex math. Many PLCs have interrupt capability that allows you to execute specific code more frequently if necessary.

I do have some experience with the Panasonic/Matsushita PLCs. The FP-X series in my case. These are very capable units but the FPWIN software does take a little getting used to. Have you gone through the First Steps Demo? I have found the online help to be fairly thorough. The structured text commands are all documented there, but not organized well. The AFPX-C14R on my bench is running a fairly small program with a scan time of <1 ms (not bad). If you add your POU's to the "Programs" task in FPWIN, they will scan repeatedly as fast as possible. Look in the PLC Status window (Monitor menu) while online with the PLC and you can see the current scan time.

If you're just getting started with PLCs, I wouldn't recommend the Panasonic. It's a powerful unit to be sure, but you won't get much support from online sources (like this website). Choose Allen-Bradley, Siemens, or Automation Direct and you'll get much more help -- assuming you ask the right questions

ExtremeIntegrations said:

3. When the sensor opens I need to count in miliseconds to the next time the sensor closes. Then I need to store this value along with date and time for each extruder in the plant.

Click to expand...

I do not know anything about the Panasonic either but it looks like you will be needing a "real time clock". Not all PLC's have "real time clock".

Thanks, Yea I need to spend some time on my own website for sure. I think owning this business is always "work in progress"

TheStarr said:

Checked out your site. Looks good, lots of info.

Only thing missing is "Why do I need LED signs?".

Your homepage should show the value of installing LED signs. How do they save me money or downtime?

Just an observation from the peanut gallery! P.S. Nice van!!!

Click to expand...