i see. that's why i'm a bit hesitant to do it. this is my first time trying to copy a program from a HMI, sort of making a back-up in case the existing one brokedown because then i might not be able to retrieve the program. it's kind of confusing when you see "transfer" because i might erase the program from the HMI. anyway, i've already made some back-ups on our plc units and the program remains when you upload them to a pc and i'm just making sure if it works the same as with HMI's.