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Old December 6th, 2018, 04:16 AM   #1
Holmux
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Prices out of control

I have used the Weight modules from Hardy Solutions (Hi 1769-2WS) with great success and I like working with the module, but I always had a feeling the price was a little steep around $ 1850,- US

Well just got off the phone with my sales rep, telling me that the price he used for the last 3 modules i got was a mistake, the price is actually $ 3000,- US so the weight scale module cost more then the complete cabinet with PLC and all, hmmm

I like the module but I simply cant sell this to my costumers so I am back to finding another solution, does anyone have any experience with solution to get a fast scale signal into a AB PLC ?
Or maybe I even have to switch to a different PLC.

Thanks
Holmux
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Old December 6th, 2018, 04:27 AM   #2
JesperMP
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Instead of a module that sits in the PLC rack, then consider a module that connects with a fieldbus that is native to the PLC. That would be Ethernet/IP for a Compactlogix.
Then you can also place the module near to the load cells, which is generally much better than having to bring the load cell cables all the way into the control cabinet where the PLC resides.

This brand has several transmitters for Ethernet/IP, and also the transmitters have the advantage that each loadcell gets its own independent input channel. No summing box ! That is a big advantage when troubleshooting individual loadcells.
https://www.laumas.com/en/product/tl...or-load-cells/
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Old December 6th, 2018, 05:35 AM   #3
PLC Pie Guy
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I have used many of the HI-4050 from Hardy. I love them. From small mixing machines to a 22000KG flour silo. Quick estimate from a foggy memory, about $800. You have the option to use the C2 integrated Load cells and summing cards as well but not a must if you just want the EthernetI/P scale head. I believe this is what JesperMP is talking about as well.

If not that, then my favorite option would be a signal conditioner like the OM-19 and an analog signal. Hard to beat that.
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Old December 6th, 2018, 07:32 AM   #4
Elcan
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My suggestions:
1) Use a scale display module with an analog signal output. The cost would be around $1,000.
2) If you are using a Red Lion Graphite HMI, there are strain gage modules that cost less than $1,000.
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Old December 6th, 2018, 07:56 AM   #5
lfe
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They recently bought one like this at my work, the SS model, I think the price was below €1000

https://www.preciamolen.co.uk/wp-con...5-00-1-FT6.pdf
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Old December 6th, 2018, 08:43 AM   #6
drforsythe
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We have used Hardy 3030 and 4050 controllers here. We use A-B PLCs here, so they talk Ethernet/IP. We recently switched to the Helm modules that work in a 1734 PointIO rack. They seem to work well and do not take up much space in the control cabinet. The part number is HM-1734-WM. The price is not bad if you already have a PointIO in your system.
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Old December 6th, 2018, 10:03 AM   #7
AustralIan
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Beckhoff bits:
BK9055
KL3356
KL9510
KL9010
below €500, 0.01% accuracy
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Old December 6th, 2018, 10:17 AM   #8
JesperMP
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We use a Laumas TLM8 unit, without Ethernet IP, but in an IP67 Box, for less than 500 €.
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Old December 6th, 2018, 11:37 AM   #9
Toine
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I know modules from Laumas as well as Penko. The Penko SGM digitizers are quite compact and available for several different fieldbus protocols. There is Ethernet/IP, Modbus/TCP, RS232, RS422, RS485, can bus and profibus.





If you want to mount something on a cabinet door with display and some buttons available for the operatpr, then the Penko 1020 indicator can be used.


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Old December 6th, 2018, 11:47 AM   #10
rscott9399
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i have used the 1769-2ws alot

Its totally insane.

I feel your pain. They are good and simple to setup with the pre configured calibrate code from hardy and so on, but it is just crazy expensive.
I would be open to alternatives too

Good luck in your search
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Old December 7th, 2018, 02:45 AM   #11
Holmux
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Thanks Everyone

I think this is just what I was looking for, I will get some ordered ad set it up in my workshop, I will keep you posted on the results

Thanks
Holmux
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Old December 9th, 2018, 05:05 PM   #12
Holmux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JesperMP View Post
Instead of a module that sits in the PLC rack, then consider a module that connects with a fieldbus that is native to the PLC. That would be Ethernet/IP for a Compactlogix.
Then you can also place the module near to the load cells, which is generally much better than having to bring the load cell cables all the way into the control cabinet where the PLC resides.

This brand has several transmitters for Ethernet/IP, and also the transmitters have the advantage that each loadcell gets its own independent input channel. No summing box ! That is a big advantage when troubleshooting individual loadcells.
https://www.laumas.com/en/product/tl...or-load-cells/
Hi Jesper

I have been reading up on this module and I think i will give this go, probably the TCP/IP module, using the analog output for the PLC and the ethernet for setup and status.

In the manual it says the Converter updates up to 600/sec, is this around the same experience you have on the analog output ?

Looking forward to have a closer look at the digital equalization option, if it works like I hope, this will solve another one of my current problems

/Holmux
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Old December 10th, 2018, 06:53 AM   #13
Toine
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The converters that I often use have an internal sample rate up to 1600/s. I use Modbus/TCP for reading. This is a tested and simple way of communication, but it is also an old and not high performance protocol. It is based on a query-response mechanism, so every readout must be initiated by the PLC which then waits for the response. I read a signal five times per second, which is enough for my purposes. Your needs may be different.



The converters I use have internal filtering which can be configured, so I can read a filtered signal. Works for me.


I tried to find details on how often an analog output signal is updated. Could not find that right away, I think you'd have to ask the company that makes your module.
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Old December 10th, 2018, 07:05 AM   #14
JesperMP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holmux View Post
I have been reading up on this module and I think i will give this go, probably the TCP/IP module, using the analog output for the PLC and the ethernet for setup and status.
Going for an analog output gives you the advantage that you are not locked into a certain brand or type or protocol. Any transmitter with 4-20mA will do.
On the other hand, without knowing what the Laumas Ethernet/IP interface will do, I am guessing that using the Ethernet/IP interface would give you better diagnostics in your own user program. I am guessing you will get diagnostics for each loadcell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holmux View Post
In the manual it says the Converter updates up to 600/sec, is this around the same experience you have on the analog output ?
I dont have the need for very fast updates, so I havent checked that.
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Old December 10th, 2018, 07:33 AM   #15
sbaum
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We use a digitizer by Laurel Electronics and communicate to the PLC with Modbus RTU. I would consider the Laumas units if they had local distribution in my area.

I question why would one use an analog signal to the PLC? With that setup you are converting from A/D > D/A > A/D. Seems to add potential for signal or calibration issues.

If you communicate with the digitizer using a fieldbus of your choice, the reading on your PLC can match the digitizer and there is much less potential for interference on the analog signal.

My 2 cents.
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