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Old January 16th, 2020, 07:24 PM   #1
dmargineau
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PVP6s Replacement with PVP7s

Replacing a Ethernet connected PanelView Plus 6 with a PanelView Plus 7 is a trivial matter but for some FTVME application graphics tweaking.

However, how would one approach replacing a RS-232 connected, KEPServer Enterprise 'driven' PVP6 with a 'modern', Ethernet only PVP7?

Obviously, the connected 'third-party' controllers do not have Ethernet capabilities and the platforms' replacement cost estimates are in excess of $500Ks/each.

Would a generic Serial Device Server (RS232/422/485-to-Ethernet) such as this one do?

Has anyone attempted to do so, and, if successful, are there any recommended Serial-to-Ethernet converters?

Would a (PVP7)USB-to-(CPU)Serial Port connection (cable/adapter) be functional?

Anticipated thanks for any input.

Last edited by dmargineau; January 16th, 2020 at 07:30 PM.
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Old January 17th, 2020, 01:04 AM   #2
Ken Roach
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What's the KepServer protocol ?

If there's a way to run it "encapsulated" to an IP/Serial terminal server, then that might work in place of the straight serial connection.

I think the LanTronix CoBox and UDS are the most commonly used terminal servers with Kepware.

I am reasonably confident that the USB host port on a PV+ will not support a USB/RS232 device. They're for removable storage and keyboard/mouse connections.
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Old January 17th, 2020, 08:12 AM   #3
Geospark
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Not sure if it's of use here, so it may only be informative...

The PanelView Plus 7 Standard (FRN 10 or later), or any PanelView Plus 7 Performance model, will support Serial DF1 using certain cabling/adapters from a terminal USB port to a serial end device configured for DF1...

There are 2 USB to Serial cable part numbers that are supported by PanelView Plus 7.

9300-USBCBL-CP3 - a DB-9 connector, this cable also comes with a Null Modem adapter. (You can also use adapter 9300-USBS with a 1747-CP3 programming cable).
9300-USBCBL-PM02 - a 8-pin mini-din connector for use with MicroLogix. (You can also use adapter 9300-USBS with a 1761-CBL-PM02 programming cable).


The terminal will assign the USB device as COM 2 and the following settings should be used for the Communication Setup...

Baud: 19,200
Stop Bits: 1
Parity: None
Error Check: BCC
Poll Timout (mSec): 3000
Max. Retries: 3

No other Serial protocol is supported via USB on the PanelView Plus 7 terminals.

I'd also be curious to know the KepServer protocol as you may be able to convert it to Serial DF1, if not possible or as easy converting it to Ethernet/IP?

Regards,
George
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Old January 17th, 2020, 09:38 AM   #4
dmargineau
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Ken and George,

As usual, a good night's sleep is priceless...

While searching for answers to your questions I've definitely determined that this is a 'no go' path.

According to the KEPServer Enterprise Release Notes PVP7s do not support the Serial drivers of the CPU families which's later models provide Ethernet connectivity. Only PVP6s do so while using KEP drivers.

I have seen the available Allen-Bradley USB-to-Serial cables to be used with the latest Firmware PVP7s, however, unfortunately, they are to be used exclusively for DF1 communicating platforms; there is no available 'third party'-to-DF1 Gateway to do 'translations'.

I will probably start this endeavor by replacing the CPUs with their Ethernet 'cousins'; the cost will be quite high, however, nowhere near the platform update cost.
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Old January 17th, 2020, 12:32 PM   #5
Ken Roach
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There I go again, being "reasonably certain" about something that hasn't been true for months or years, but that George knows all about !

That's interesting the Kepware doesn't support the COM2 port with their serial drivers. My guess is that this is a commercial decision, not necessarily a technical one.

It might be worthwhile to poke around about using Ethernet encapsulation and a terminal server. LanTronix CoBox DR1's are so dang nifty.
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Old January 18th, 2020, 05:26 AM   #6
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If you can't find a protocol converter to do what you need to do then it's most likely we won't either. But in the interest of both you being surer on that, and also to benefit the Forum in knowing what options are not possible in these situations; can you tell us what protocol you are attempting to convert out of the CPU's? If it's proprietary, or there's some reason you cannot divulge it, then I would respect that, but otherwise it cannot hurt?

Plus, I'm just too curious?

Regards,
Curious George
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Old January 18th, 2020, 08:45 PM   #7
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I actually went down this path about 6 months ago, when replacing a proface HMI on an Omron PLC. I was handed a Panelview 7 (rather than a panel view 6) by accident from our AB Rep. After a lot of toying I was not able to get the USB ports to communicate with any other open protocol other than, as dmargineau indicated.
A standard serial RS232 to ethernet/TCP gateway will not cut the mustard either. Your easiest bet would be to use a Serial (RS232) to ethernet/IP gateway. from there it would think its a native ethernet/ip device and tagging is straight forward. From there your mapping would be done in the gateway device. ADF have a few which I have toyed with in the past.
Ultimately I got that to work but we ended up getting a stackload of panelview 6's for this very reason. IMO its a backwards move by AB because it removes the functionality to work with other controllers as easily.
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Old January 20th, 2020, 09:21 AM   #8
dmargineau
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geospark View Post
If you can't find a protocol converter to do what you need to do then it's most likely we won't either. But in the interest of both you being surer on that, and also to benefit the Forum in knowing what options are not possible in these situations; can you tell us what protocol you are attempting to convert out of the CPU's? If it's proprietary, or there's some reason you cannot divulge it, then I would respect that, but otherwise it cannot hurt?

Plus, I'm just too curious?

Regards,
Curious George
I always respect and accommodate curiosity George...

The protocol is Simatic 505; PVP6s support both Simatic 505 Serial and Ethernet, however, PVP7s suport only Simatic 505 Ethernet.

Yes I could put in Ethernet CTI2500s, however, they cost as much as 1756-L82s; 'they' will raise both eyebrows when becoming aware of the cost, however, it looks like that's what's going to take... Bummer......
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