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Old January 9th, 2007, 10:16 AM   #1
averytc
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1747-ASB "AdE" Reset problems

We have a problem that has eluded us for two months now. There is a RIO rack connected to a SLC 5/05 (upgraded from a 5/04 five years ago). It is a 13 slot rack of discrete I/O, and the only RIO node. All inputs are 1746-IA16, and all outputs are 1746-OW16. The rack controls mostly pump motors and actuated solenoid valves. This rack has been in use for over ten years with no issues.



About four months ago the rack and several cards were damaged when water came into the cabinet down the conduit from a roof leak. The rack and several I/O cards were replaced. The cabinet and roof were both sealed, and the rack functioned normally after we came back up.



Two months later, during planned downtime, we moved the cabinet directly upstairs to make room in the downstairs MCC for additional MCC sections to be installed. During the move about half of the I/O was moved to another PLC, and the cabinet was wired to UPS power instead of direct. Within days we began getting a reset, adapter decide command “AdE” on the ASB module. This causes the rack to pulse the outputs 2-3 times a second. Twice during this process a card error “L 10” & “L 4” occurred. Slot 10 is an output card, and slot 4 is an input card. Each was replaced and the error cleared. During the replacement of the input card, the power supply failed and was also replaced. The cabinet has been rewired back to its original power source, and we’ve checked grounding several times. We still however, keep getting the “AdE” problem intermittently. It seems to be related to certain combinations of inputs, but we’ve been unable to narrow it down. We have fused all of the outputs, and replaced several of the wires to the field. We are now adding surge suppression to each of the devices in the field feeding back. The ASB card and three input cards are the only things left that have not been replaced.



At this point we’re running out of things to do. Has anyone had similar issues like this before?



Thanks for your help.



Charlie
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Old January 9th, 2007, 12:00 PM   #2
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I have chased ghosts in my RIO 1746-OW16 cards too. I found that outputs 7 and 8 on those cards are very near the baclplane. Therefore noise, on those two outputs in particular, will freak out the adapter module and make it lose comms to one or more cards in the chassis.

In my experiments, the slot referred to by the fault code was usually incorrect. On my machine, I ended up switching to a triac output card since that was easier than replacing the solenoid which was probably causing the noise in the first place. And yes, I tried surge suppressors first.

I fought this problem intermittently for over 6 months, and replaced everything at least twice before coming up with this conclusion. The problem would occur once or twice a week, then go away for a month, then it might happen 10 times in an 8 hour shift for several days straight, then run just fine for a few weeks. Finally, I started recording every occurence in great detail and moved wires to a spare output card until I found my real problem.

If at all possible, switch your OW16s to a solid state output card and see if that fixes it. If you must have relay outputs, maybe you can avoid points 7 and 8 on those cards...

Hope this helps,
Paul
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Old January 9th, 2007, 12:18 PM   #3
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Thanks for your advice Paul. I'm not sure what we'll do next, but going to solid state cards sound like a good idea. What I can't understand is why this system ran sooo long without any problems like this before??? I guess it really doesn't mater.
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Old January 9th, 2007, 12:35 PM   #4
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from OkiePC:



Quote:
I have chased ghosts in my RIO 1746-OW16 cards too. I found that outputs 7 and 8 on those cards are very near the backplane. Therefore noise, on those two outputs in particular, will freak out the adapter module and make it lose comms to one or more cards in the chassis.


Paul, let me be the first to say that that was one IMPRESSIVE display of troubleshooting ... personally I’ve never even heard of that particular “cause and effect” relationship even being considered before ... specific relays closest to the backplane ... whooda-thunkit? ...



Charlie ...



if you follow through on Paul’s suggestion, PLEASE come back and let us know how that works out for you ... one of the best features of the forum is its ability to act as a knowledgebase of solutions for weird little problems like this ...

almost finally ... thanks, Paul, for that post ... it gives me a whole different perspective on the PLC’s backplane communications ...



and really finally ... thanks, Charlie, for that unusually detailed problem statement ... most people don’t take the time to mention the specific model numbers of the modules in their chassis ... in some cases (as in Paul’s) that type of detail is essential to finding and understanding the problem ...
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Old January 22nd, 2007, 08:07 AM   #5
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I hope this is not jumping to any conclusions, but changing from 1746-OW16 relay outputs to 1746-IA16 TRIACs seems to have solved our problems. It has been over a week now without any problems. Before we could not go more than a day. We did try surge suppression first without success.

Thank you Paul for sharing your experience. I'm not sure we would have ever figured it out. Even AB tech support was not able to help us.

Charlie
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Old February 18th, 2013, 10:33 AM   #6
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I know this is a really old post but we are having similar issues on this situation and need clarification. Does anyone know if it is output 7 and 8 or is it actually output 7 and 10? I want to try to move outputs around to see if it helps but I wanted to make sure which before I moved any. Thanks
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Old February 18th, 2013, 10:57 AM   #7
OkiePC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgore View Post
I know this is a really old post but we are having similar issues on this situation and need clarification. Does anyone know if it is output 7 and 8 or is it actually output 7 and 10?
If you are using octal addressing, then yes, output 10 would be right after output 7. This would be the case if the SLC I/O is being run by a PLC-5.
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Old February 18th, 2013, 11:00 AM   #8
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Correct, I guess I should have clarified my question. Thanks for the reply, I will try to relocate these two outputs. This sounds really close to the problem we have encountered for sometime with this rack.
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Old February 18th, 2013, 12:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Thanks for the reply, I will try to relocate these two outputs.
Just to correct an old error, I am sure that the 1746-OW16 relay module should be replaced with a 1746-OA16 transisitor output module, not a transistor Input module as once stated by Averytc:
Quote:
I hope this is not jumping to any conclusions, but changing from 1746-OW16 relay outputs to 1746-IA16 TRIACs seems to have solved our problems.
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Old February 18th, 2013, 12:53 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Lancie1 View Post
Just to correct an old error, I am sure that the 1746-OW16 relay module should be replaced with a 1746-OA16 transisitor output module, not a transistor Input module as once stated by Averytc:
Ok, I assumed so, I have relocated the two suspect outputs for now but long term I have a new OA16 to replace it with.
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