Allen Bradley SMC soft starters...

OkiePC

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Last week we had two issues with two different refrigeration compressor contactors. They are wye-start delta-run motors with contactor controls. Both issues were caused by problems with auxilliary contacts. While working on the second one (500HP) we found that the contactor is worn and in need of repair.

We are looking into the possibility of using soft starters instead of repairing these big expensive contactors. Specifically, I have been reading up on the Allen-Bradley SMC-Flex and the SMC-3 series.

Can anyone comment on these devices? I have never used them before, so I would like to go into my first project with my new company armed with as much info as possible.

Thanks in advance
Paul
 
Only have used them on small motors (less than 5 hp). One thing that I have made pretty standard though is I always use an isolation contactor with the SMC. This verifies that power is removed during a stop (or estop) and also prevents the technician from having 480VAC at the motor without the motor running.

Sorry I don't have any experience with the larger versions.
 
I've used a couple of Telemech soft starters on some 20kW motors and have been happy with them - a much nicer solution than star/delta starters when that sort of thing is required. I use mine similarly to Bruce in that I power the soft starter from a contactor and wire it to enable whenever power is applied.

If speed regulation could save you money, consider selecting a low-spec VSD to use as a soft starter.

One other thing: configure your soft starter to start at 50% voltage and a similar changeover time to emulate the orginal starter if that worked well.
 
I've used Cutler Hammer IT softstarts on 300 hp blower motors with excellent results.

My experience with the A-B softstarts is on the older model SMC, and I was not impressed. Lots of fan noise, no integral bypass contactor, and tricky set-up. A-B has newer design units, and they appear to have addressed most of these concerns, but I haven't used them yet.

Make sure you get bypass contactors with them - this is so the current isn't continuously going through the SCRs after the motor is up to speed.
 
Both types I am looking at include bypass contactors. The SMC-Flex units actually have 3 individually replaceable poles (thyristor and bypass contact as a removable unit) and a replaceable control board.

I am not sure this application would benefit from variable speed drives enough to justify the costs. This system uses multiple compressors per refrigeration system which are individually cycled as needed by a main controller.

This company is the best I have seen with regard to lockout/tagout, so I would feel quite safe installing the soft starters without the isolation contactor. There is no chance that a technician would work on any of the wiring without locking it out. However, if we have old contactors to spare when upgrading, we may decide to use them for that purpose.

I don't think we will go through a major replacement of existing systems, rather we will migrate to them as repairs are deemed necessary.

Thanks for the comments so far. Anyone else?
 
Our plant has several of the SMC line even though they are mainly on small motors they have been relatively trouble free our larger motors typically use AB 1336 or the Omron G5+ series which has the added flexibility of using drive explorer or CX-drive to trouble shoot a variety of problems
 
I've used many SMCs, including the SMC-FLex, which I really like (except its a bit overkill for some apps). I've had excellent results with them. I use SMC-Flex's on DeviceNet on hydraulic pumps - the extra data the SMC-Flex provides has been useful for pump diagnostics and system performance monitoring and on more than one occasion.

The SMC-Flex and SMC3 have built in bypass contactors and for the last four years I have been using them exclusively for motors starters of all sizes. The SMC-3 is price competitive with a contactor w/ overload.
 
We have used the SMC-3 softstarters and had no luck with them. I think we've put in maybe 15 of them and replaced about 14 of them. I would maybe look into using an entry level VFD, but I don't know any off the top of my head that go up to 500HP.
 
When you say you had no luck with them, what do you mean? If you had to replace that many of them then I would be suspicious of the application or the installation.
 
I did a project with one 300HP SMC Flex on it last year and compared to most of the other soft starters out there I thought they had some issues that made them less desirable.

For one, I don't like their concept of 3 separate 1-pole bypass contactors. Cutler Hammer does this too and I think it's a waste. You are paying for that feature, but you CANNOT under any circumstances use that contactor configuration to start the motor in an emergency if the soft starter is down. I would rather put in my own contactor and have the choice by virtue of how I size the contactor.

For another thing, they apparently MUST have fuses in front of them per their UL listing, even if you already have a circuit breaker! That to me points to a design weakness.

I also had trouble with the fact that they are not very heavy duty; I used it on a rock crusher and lost one power pole the first time I turned it on. Mind you, I have been in the soft starter business for 20+ years so I know what I am doing, this was not "operator error". The SCRs just apparently could not take the 30 seconds at 450% current it took to wind up this crusher. Allen Bradley is very secretive of their SCR overload ratings and this has always made me suspicious.

The big eye opener for me was that the replacement power pole, ONE pole, for the new SMC Flex was more expensive than an entire 300HP soft starter chassis from several other sources! Granted, that power pole has the 1 pole bypass contactor built in and includes both SCRs, but that was ridiculous IMHO. The only good thing I'll say about it was that changing that pole was a breeze.

The SMC-3 (and SMC Delta) are not made by AB, they are made by Omron in Japan and brand-labeled by AB. These are very light duty soft starters, I would hesitate to use them on anything but a centrifugal pump or fan. They too cannot have their integral bypass used for emergency starting. They also have no snubbers on the SCRs, choosing instead to put a small warning in the manual that users should install their own varistors or line isolation contactor. This means, if you didn't happen to see that warning, normal line transients can cause your SCRs to self-commutate (turn on without being commanded to) and/or short.

My recommendation: Motortronics or Benshaw (or Toshiba which is Brand Labeled Motortronics). Both of them are heavy duty rated AND, importantly for refer compressors, they each have a feature that, if for some reason you short one SCR, you can defeat the Shorted SCR Lockout and restart if you have to with the remaining SCRs. The start will be rough, but you don't lose your refrigerated product while waiting for a $3000 power pole assembly to be flown in to you. I used to use that on fishing vessel refers after an AB old SMC died at sea and the user lost an entire hold full of salmon.
 
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I worked with smaller SMC's and had little trouble with them. I would recommend benshaw as well

www.benshaw.com

They specialize in soft starts. They will be just as reliable as an AB and cost much less.
 
Hi in regards to ab soft starters we have a lot of these in our pump stations for effluent. we are having a lot of issues with a open bypass fault which can be put down to not having the correct power supply. it is not the case with us as these panels have been designed by AB. I have found that the connectors going to the bypass scr are a little loose and dont lock properly. try put some super glue on them and will be ok. all in all i have gone away from these units and we are using telemecanique altistart 22 which come standard with modbus and half the price and have worked really well. hope this helps
 
Both types I am looking at include bypass contactors. The SMC-Flex units actually have 3 individually replaceable poles (thyristor and bypass contact as a removable unit) and a replaceable control board.

I am not sure this application would benefit from variable speed drives enough to justify the costs. This system uses multiple compressors per refrigeration system which are individually cycled as needed by a main controller.

This company is the best I have seen with regard to lockout/tagout, so I would feel quite safe installing the soft starters without the isolation contactor. There is no chance that a technician would work on any of the wiring without locking it out. However, if we have old contactors to spare when upgrading, we may decide to use them for that purpose.

I don't think we will go through a major replacement of existing systems, rather we will migrate to them as repairs are deemed necessary.

Thanks for the comments so far. Anyone else?

Okie I am sure I am preaching to the choir BUT refer compressors can be hard starting load. Especially with soft start I would have anti short cycle control.

Also I would check with compressor mfr to ensure there will be no compressor problems when using soft start. The one thing that comes to mind is low oil pressure when starting at reduced speed - but you saw that also with wye delta.

Dan Bentler
 

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