Clean-In-Place Process

[LadderLogic]

Yes, but there must be laws and standards for this, not just voluntary self-discipline.

There are lawyers and the constant threat of a lawsuit with catastrophic penalties if something goes wrong. In most cases, works better or at least as well as laws and standards. Money is the strongest motivator.

 

[nonuke]

We build over 5 big CIP´s every year for big for big dairies in Europe.
We always use 4 tanks (Rinse water, Recovery water, Caustic and Acid) and an option for Hot water (>85ºC).
The CIP of an equipmet isn´t started from the CIP, but from the equipment itself. Since we have flow meters in all the going lines and Freq. drives in all the cip going pumps, we have about 4 or 5 cip programs with different flows (small pipes, big pipes, big tanks and small tanks). When we start the cip from the equipment, the CIP already knows the flow rate and times for that equipment. Unless the CIP program ends OK, the client can NOT use the equipment again. This is just a small part description of a cip unit.

 

[leitmotif]

Yes, but there must be laws and standards for this, not just voluntary self-discipline.

Jesper
To my knowledge the only industries that have full time always there inspectors are aircraft building and nuclear.

Yes there are FDA (and if a meat process USDA) requirements that state you have to have Good Management Practices in writing.

This is similar to OSHA that concentrates on paper plans (I call em tigers - on paper and no teeth)

In both cases it is up to management to ensure quality of product and that plans are followed and done correctly. Now if this great plan works then I ask
1. Why are we still having many accidents?
2. Why do many food industry workers NEVER buy the product they produce?

After working in a food plant it is amazing why we do not have more food borne illness.

Dan Bentler

 

[OkiePC]

It is getting better (food safety). My company has a USDA office in the plant and they can literally shut us down for any legitimate reason at any time. The amount of testing of products that happens here is vast. No product gets released until those test come back clean. They test for e-coli, listeria and many other bacteria.

After all of our equipment is washed, rinsed and sanitized, the QA group uses test strips on all the food contact surfaces to ensure that the detergents are gone and that the sanitizer strength is at the right level. Occasionally a mistake is made and someone forgets to apply sanitizer, or uses the wrong (too strong) dilution, but those test strips catch those errors before production begins.

This plant is remarkably clean, by far the cleanest plant I have worked in. it is really nice to come to work and not have to get greasy and dirty. Most of our food quality issues are the result of foreign objects that get into the operation from suppliers and the occasional broken bolt or bracket that finds its way into a grinder. Metal detectors catch any metal down to a (i think) 0.5mm in diameter, but things like wood and plastic are difficult to catch. I am not worried about e-coli or listeria here because of the abundance of testing in house and at independent labs.

Most food operations have the understanding that one recall can put you right out of business for good.

We have one automatic CIP system on a big spiral freezer, and it has manual overrides so that if a sensor fails or something, we are able to manually finish the process. We recently added a hot rinse program to the system so that we can raise the air temp to 170 degrees F to kill everything in the machine once a week we run this program.

 

[TurpoUrpo]

Baby food?

 

[ianingram]

but things like wood and plastic are difficult to catch.

A lot of my work is also in the food industry.
Within the last 6-12 mths, 2 plants have installed X-Ray machines on their lines, to pick up anything.

They seem to be working ok too.

 

[DwalterE]

I did many of these systems for the brewing industry over the years. Could write a book about the subject, but I'll try not do it here.

I always built the system to automatically step thru the process from beginning to end, but gave the operator the option to pause and resume the process at any time. Also provided the operator the ability to step forward or backwards in the program.

Sometimes, the program had a built-in pause in it, to permit the operator to install a gasket, or replace a manway cover. He then hit the "Resume" button to continue.

In later years, I found more and more users requiring some form of printed record of the cleaning cycle, which recorded flows, pressures, temperatures, and solution concentrations. This became part of the HMI project design.

Most users required multiple programs, depending on the type of cleaning they wished to do: ie
1. PreRinse
2. Caustic Wash
3. PostRinse
4. Acid Wash
5. PostRinse
6. Sanitizer
7. PostRinse

other programs would omit certain steps. eg. Rinse/Caustic/Rinse only, or Acid only etc.

The program would also vary, depending on the equipment being washed. A pipe-only route would require that each solution be chased or pushed out with the following solution, whereas tanks would require a pause after each solution to allow the sides of the tank to drain and return the solution before going on to the next. Also, with tanks, it was usually necessary to start and stop the supply pumps to prevent solution accumulation in the tanks, leading to a "bathtub ring"in the tank.

I could go on for a few more pages. If there's any topic you'd like to discuss, just pm me.

Walter

 

[PeterW]

Unbelievable.

When one thinks about all the measures we have to go through in order to make machines safe. And one should think that in a factory you should asume that stuff is dangerous.

But countering the risk of filling babyfood jars with toxic cleaners is left to everyones own judgement - or willingness to spend. Wow.

Believe me you know if the system has not been flushed. When I worked in food it happened maybe once or twice over about 5-6 year period, when the product reached the filling machines there is an unmistakable odour that lets you know.



In our system we used a de-ionised water plant for our supplies because of the hard water in the area.

 

[OkiePC]

A lot of my work is also in the food industry.
Within the last 6-12 mths, 2 plants have installed X-Ray machines on their lines, to pick up anything.

They seem to be working ok too.

We have one x-ray machine from Safe-Line (Mettler Toledo) and it works pretty good, but it works on packaged product before it's cartoned. It is basically a vision system software with an x-ray "camera", so it rejects when the packaging has air bubbles or is way off on orientation angle. I don't think it would work on ground beef in our other applications, where there is not a consistent picture to compare with.

I am definitely interested in hearing more about an x-ray that could work over a conveyor hauling ground beef really fast, though.

Baby food?

Not baby food (unless Happy Meals count), but burgers, sausage, and canadian bacon.

 

[PeterW]

X-Ray is not new, that technology was used in the mid 1980's when I started in the food business and it wasn't new then.

Every seamer would have a gamma system after the lid was on to measure the air gap.

Prior to the filling machines were always metal detectors, magnets etc.

 

[ianingram]

I am definitely interested in hearing more about an x-ray that could work over a conveyor hauling ground beef really fast, though.

Here is a link to the OEM of the machines that I have seen.

Naturally, I don't know whether they would be suitable for your application.

 

[bayeibrahima]

Cleaning in place

Hello to all.I also have a project on this topics.We want to install a CIP Station in our factory and I have tried to make a programm using the plc.net Simulator
I've named it in french words" NETTOYAGE EN PLACE INDUSTRIELLE"
I think I've gone further than your five steps.
If you can look at it and tell me your opinion, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you

 

[Adam303]

@curlyandshemp

CIP, now you are talking my language!

How many tanks are you looking at ?
Typically , there is a Rinse, Caustic and Acid. Acid is required if the water in your area is hard or you are using products that cause calcium build up such as milk products.

Will the chemical addition be automatic?

There will be a total of three tanks.
We still don’t know about the chemical dosing, and whether it will be automatic or manual. If you can please shed some light on this as to how the automatic dosing of chemical is carried out. How to check for the right content of chemicals used.

Thanks for all you input guys

 

[curlyandshemp]

@curlyandshemp

There will be a total of three tanks.
We still don’t know about the chemical dosing, and whether it will be automatic or manual. If you can please shed some light on this as to how the automatic dosing of chemical is carried out. How to check for the right content of chemicals used.

Thanks for all you input guys

Which Chemical company are you thinking of using? Ecolab are one of the best, and usually they will supply you with all the chemical dosing equipment providing you sign a contract with them.

For Automatic chemical dosing , we use a conductivity sensor on the CIP return line. Anderson Instruments make a nice one http://www.andinst.com/PDFs/5022.pdf

To dose chemical, in the recirculation steps, the program will inject for a fixed period of time into the chemical tank, usually 20 - 30 seconds.

Then the program allows the dosed chemical to recirculate, typically 60 - 90 seconds.

Then based on the value of the return conductivity sensor,the chemical pump will inject and wait, usually 5 seconds ON, 30 Seconds OFF until the chemical setpoint, usually 7 ms/Cm , is achieved.

Again, a chemical company will give you parameters on time, temperature, flowrate and chemical strength based on your application.

 

[MJC]

Can anyone explain why a pressure sensor is needed in a CIP system, why does a flow rate have to be mesured.