Do you help your Tech School?

[geniusintraining]

Any schooling should be applauded

I do the final interview at my work, if some one goes to a 2 year or a 4 year, I could care less...but as long as they go and show the initiative to do something besides be a couch potato, I commend them for that.

I am 40 now (just cresting the hill) this year I will be going to 2 classes (AMK servo controls and CLX from Ron Beaufort) , its not a waist of time. Any schooling if you can take away something is great.

I have been on this forum for over 2 years now...This is also on my resume the things that I have learned here are priceless, this is my 2 year degree.

But anyways I just get defensive when talking about and putting down trying to better them/yourself, I don’t think you were trying to say that but thats the way I read it (Ron and Peter) but that’s the way it looks, yes a doctorate would be ideal but something is better then nothing.

I do think you need to have more then a high school education to work on equipment now days even if you are a grunt.

The point is.. schooling is a life time, even if you go to a 2-4-8 you will still need to continue to learn, I just don't think you can put a label on 2year schooling

 

[SLC_Integrator]

I really feel like I need to add in my thoughts here.
I think RSDoran is way out of line saying a 2 year degree doesnt mean diddly.

Smith hit it on the head when he mentioned Maintenance folk.
How many I&E guys have a BSEE or such?
Theres different levels of competence and within that different levels of SKILL.
To me neither competence or skill can be taught in a classroom.

I've also met several EE's from prestigious universities that couldnt find their *** with both hands and a flashlight.

Education alone to be honest in this field doesnt mean alot, though employers only really have that to go on for hiring on so like it or not its a fact of life.

To get down to it I guess to me a good 2 year basic degree in some kind of Applied Science (REAL WORLD) followed up by some solid experience is worth more than any BS degree. It seems the higher degrees people have the dumber smart folk they are.

Sorry for the rant I havnt had my caffiene fix for the morning yet

 

[harryting]

Huh, didn't similiar subject come up every so often? I got flamed bad the last time I suggested a regular BS degree over just tech training.

Let me be clear, there a lot folks who don't have a degree but are smarter/better looking/faster/stronger than someone with a BS.

However, my advice to young folks these day is to get a 4 year degree, as a minimal. Why? One word, OPTIONS. A BS opens a lot more doors than just a tech degree. It allows you to move up the management, go into investment banking, go to med school, be a pilot, a federal agent... the list goes on. Very few people know exactly what they want to do at 18... or at 25.. 40. Getting a 4 years degree at a ABET accedited school is a much better investment.

 

[Jimmie_Ohio]

Any schooling if you can take away something is great.

I am 40 now (just cresting the hill) this year I will be going to 2 classes (AMK servo controls and CLX from Ron Beaufort)

Ron, don't forget to bolt them ControlLogix demo units to the FLOOR!!!

 

[geniusintraining]

Ron, don't forget to bolt them ControlLogix demo units to the FLOOR!!!

Just toooo damn funny

Good one Jimmie

 

[SLC_Integrator]

"However, my advice to young folks these day is to get a 4 year degree, as a minimal. Why? One word, OPTIONS."

That kind of advice is precisely why there is a huge shortage of skilled labor.

Kids go to school for 4 years, get a BS and end up working in McDonalds anyways.

The kicker is a good skilled guy with his measly AS degree probably earns twice what a graduate does.

 

[Jimmie_Ohio]

That kind of advice is precisely why there is a huge shortage of skilled labor.

Kids go to school for 4 years, get a BS and end up working in McDonalds anyways.

This is a pretty involved problem.

1) First, people equate education with money, which is not always the case. (Bill Gates is a college drop-out.) An education shouldn't teach you to be smart. It should teach you how to work smart. You better already know how to work.

2) Many people, in my opinion, have a terrible work ethic. For example, my girlfriend is a microbiologist at a major hospital. The hospital cannot get people at $14 an hour to prepare specimens for testing. Wouldn't this be a great job for a pre-med student? But the competition of the education in that field does not allow the pre-meds to do the work (and get some great on-the-job experience).

3) Kids today are not very motivated. When Mom and Dad earn big bucks and pay for a landscaper to manicure the yard, all that's left is video games. I know too many teens that don't know how to even start a lawn mower, unless they can ride it.

4) The media does little to accurately portray what jobs the real economy is thirsty for, such as skilled labor. Can the drywall project you need done at your home be performed by farming it out to a third-world country? Look at the bridge collapse in Minnesota yesterday. The infrastructure of the US is in bad shape. Only skilled labor HERE can fix it. But "education" is what is perceived as what everybody needs, and lots of it.

I could go on and on....

 

[SLC_Integrator]

"1) First, people equate education with money, which is not always the case. (Bill Gates is a college drop-out.)"

So is Micheal Dell
So is Steve Jobs
So is Richard Branson

I get the feeling super achievers like these folks had figured out they didnt need a degree to be successful/earn money etc.

I am starting to even think one step further that by completing a 4 year degree somewhat limits entrepreneurship in that:

a) It forces the person to 'do something' with the degree instead of doing what they are good at and/or enjoy.

b) Somewhat restricts their thinking having been taught the 'official' way of doing things.

I guess it comes down to the big question of 'Where do you want to end up?'

 

[harryting]

"However, my advice to young folks these day is to get a 4 year degree, as a minimal. Why? One word, OPTIONS."

That kind of advice is precisely why there is a huge shortage of skilled labor.

Kids go to school for 4 years, get a BS and end up working in McDonalds anyways.

The kicker is a good skilled guy with his measly AS degree probably earns twice what a graduate does.

This is simply not true if you don't selectly pick out the few samples.

I give the same advice to the brillant basketball player... sure, he may able to get the $26 millions contract right after high school but then again... most likely not.

https://www.uwec.edu/Career/Online_Library/education_earnings.htm

We all can selectly pick up the few odd ball examples all day long. I have see people with phD work now at minimal wage job and people who got the "skip stupid college" advice 10 years earlier working right next to him. What's the lesson drawn? Nada.

 

[Jimmie_Ohio]

I guess it comes down to the big question of 'Where do you want to end up?'

I was the son of a man who started and owned a control panel shop for 25 years. And my dad was trained as a tool-and-die maker! Guess what I knew I was going to be when I grew up?

At my family's shop, I was doing more at 13 or 14 than a lot of college undergraduates: testing PC boards with a scope, soldering control cables together, running wiring harnesses, always following electrical schematics and assembly drawings. I probably broke every child labor law ever written in the US, but I loved it.

In college, I didn't learn any "thing" that I know today, since technology changes so fast. For example, I punched IBM cards to test my computer programs. The highest level controls I worked with had paper tapes.

College did teach me "how to learn" and I consider myself to be extremely resourceful, but college is over-rated as far as teaching what I now know.

 

[bernie_carlton]

I only know our local tech school
Virtually all graduating classes in the various trades have multiple high paying job offers before graduation. I have spoken there and provided some technical expertise (in PLCs) from time to time. I don't think the students there have wasted anything.

 

[SLC_Integrator]

I only know our local tech school
Virtually all graduating classes in the various trades have multiple high paying job offers before graduation. I have spoken there and provided some technical expertise (in PLCs) from time to time. I don't think the students there have wasted anything.

Most employers round here are screaming for Skilled techs.
Its to the point theyll hire on high school kids and pay them to go to tech scool.

Now folks say 'why not hire grads then?'

Employers are terrified that if they hire a grad, train him up with the skills he needs to actually do the hands on and the guy leaves to be an 'engineer' having got his valuable experience.

Fact is a tech guy is more likely to stay.

To answer the previous post:

"We all can selectly pick up the few odd ball examples all day long. I have see people with phD work now at minimal wage job and people who got the "skip stupid college" advice 10 years earlier working right next to him. What's the lesson drawn? Nada."

I'm not being selective. Its pretty much across the board in my experience (and I HAVE been around a little).

We have 5 oil refineries round here and they ALL pay techs better than they pay most engineers.
If were going to talk turkey a tech can average ~90k a year with a decent amount of overtime. Engineers are generally salary so grad engineers get less base pay, no overtime with no union protection.

 

[Jimmie_Ohio]

We have 5 oil refineries round here and they ALL pay techs better than they pay most engineers.

Reminds me of the joke:

A surgeon hires a plumber to fix a leak. The plumber is in the surgeon's house for five minutes, fixes the leak, and presents a bill to the surgeon for $1,800.00.

"$1,800.00?" the surgeon exclaims. "I don't charge that for my most intricate, complicated surgical procedure that lasts only five minutes!"

"I didn't either, when I was a surgeon." replied the plumber.

 

[SLC_Integrator]

Reminds me of the joke:

A surgeon hires a plumber to fix a leak. The plumber is in the surgeon's house for five minutes, fixes the leak, and presents a bill to the surgeon for $1,800.00.

"$1,800.00?" the surgeon exclaims. "I don't charge that for my most intricate, complicated surgical procedure that lasts only five minutes!"

"I didn't either, when I was a surgeon." replied the plumber.

Course if the surgeon was so smart .. whys he calling the plumber in the first place???

I am constantly amazed that Geek Squad or similar exists, yet they make $$ charging regualrt folk to do stuff.

 

[Jimmie_Ohio]

I am constantly amazed that Geek Squad or similar exists, yet they make $$ charging regualrt folk to do stuff.

Ditto:

Real story. Three years ago, I bought my son a Sony Vaio laptop computer for his graduation gift. It works great until a few months ago. He tells me its getting hot, locks up on occasion, and a bleak message concerning impending hard drive failure pops up.

I locate a new hard drive on eBay for 100 bucks, exactly like the original one, but twice as large.

I have my son install some "heat monitor" fan control program (freeware) which checks CPU and hard drive temps.

I research the problem, find out that others discovered the fins on the processor heat sink get clogged, overheating that. This clog problem also applies to the main vents, so the hard drive tends to sizzle, too. They suggest removing the heat sink, cleaning the fins (free), and applying silver-based thermal compound ($10 in stock at Radio Shack).

I spend two hours with my son taking the thing apart, replacing the hard drive, fixing the processor, and cleaning out the whole mess. I had to leave, so he re-assembles the computer.

SUMMARY: The thing works as good as new, with double the original hard drive capacity, for $110.00 TOTAL.

Estimated Geek Squad charges: $75 for diagnostics, $350 for hard drive, $75 for hard drive installation, $200 more in labor for trying to find the processor heat sink problem and cleaning the computer. $700 total - Most people would give up and buy a new computer, right?

LESSON TO SON ABOUT BEING RESOURCEFUL, NOT HELPLESS: Priceless.