FactoryTalk ME vs Indusoft?

Dreamer81

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Dec 2016
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Hi everyone!
I've been using InTouch for a long time, so I understand basic HMI building, but I just started a new job and my manager is looking at FactoryTalk View ME vs Indusoft (aka InTouch Machine Edition). I've not used either, but my boss is looking to me to make a decision between ONLY these two products. I've not been able to find a document comparing FactoryTalk View ME and Indusoft.

I know a lot of people have favorites, but I need to be able to backup my decision. Is anyone able to comment on a comparison of features between the two products? Are there features in one that are not in another? Is one easier to use, and why? etc?

Can anyone help?
 
More of a hardware question. ME runs on AB PanelView HMI units. Which are pretty good units. Yes you can run the application on standard PC if you wanted, however if your needs are ensuring a good hardware HMI with very broad support a FTView ME/Panelview is a good option. Easily can make arguments that other hardware based HMI solutions are a better alternative. However InTouch Machine Edition is more of a software soluiton and you need to decide on the hardware it will run, typically an embedded PC of some sort. So more homework to come up with a good software/hardware solution.

Cost of course is a consideration.

AB FTView ME software + PanelView hardware

InTouch Software + (insert hardware of choice here)
 
More of a hardware question. ME runs on AB PanelView HMI units. Which are pretty good units. Yes you can run the application on standard PC if you wanted, however if your needs are ensuring a good hardware HMI with very broad support a FTView ME/Panelview is a good option. Easily can make arguments that other hardware based HMI solutions are a better alternative. However InTouch Machine Edition is more of a software solution and you need to decide on the hardware it will run, typically an embedded PC of some sort. So more homework to come up with a good software/hardware solution.

Cost of course is a consideration.

AB FTView ME software + PanelView hardware

InTouch Software + (insert hardware of choice here)

Thank you for the quick response, and very valid question. In our case, we're not tied to any specific hardware. We're open to a generic panel pc, or a PanelView. Cost is obviously a factor, but if one system has way better features than the other, then cost becomes less important.

As well, not sure if it makes a difference, but we're going to be looking at getting around 6 or 7 of these, to start. When managing multiple units, I'm not sure if that adds additional pros/cons to the list..?
 
Thank you for the quick response, and very valid question. In our case, we're not tied to any specific hardware. We're open to a generic panel pc, or a PanelView. Cost is obviously a factor, but if one system has way better features than the other, then cost becomes less important.

As well, not sure if it makes a difference, but we're going to be looking at getting around 6 or 7 of these, to start. When managing multiple units, I'm not sure if that adds additional pros/cons to the list..?

"Features" are moot at this point, we don't even know what these things will be doing or how advanced your programming is. Are you an OEM and selling off this equipment to a client? Are you the end user? Systems Integrator? Will this be used on the same type of system and just duplicated? Will it be used on a variety of equipment?

How advanced is your control? You mention 6-7 of them, do you want to simply have local machine control? Or do you want a distributed solution where it's all tied together (SCADA) that opens up possible data collection/report capability?

Right now you could pick either and it's all the same. Cost and Support are about the only thing that will differentiate the two until you understand what your needs really are.
 
FactoryTalk View ME (and the PV+ terminal) have an advantage in ease of use, longevity and durability of hardware, and good connectivity to and integration with Rockwell controllers.

For me, that advantage is offset by the cumbersome installation, operation, and unreliability of FactoryTalk View Studio.

As a custom machinery OEM, the feature set and power of Indusoft Web Studio make it the runaway winner.

I came from a very strong FactoryTalk View background; most of you know my history as an RA employee in sales and support.

But when I started learning Indusoft Web Studio and saw the power and the features and the speed that it offered, I repeatedly suppressed the urge to weep with both gratitude and regret.

IWS has some bugs and some limitations and some drawbacks, sure. But when I was doing FTView ME applications, I routinely had to say "sorry, the software doesn't do that" and find workarounds or simplify the application. With IWS, if the native objects and functions don't do what I want, I can connect to external components and databases and programs easily.

If you want a hardware unit that will run a program built 13 years ago with no modifications at all and fit into the same cutout, then the PV+ is worthy of consideration.

But for my company, Indusoft Web Studio is our standard offering. We will use PV+ only if a customer requires it.
 
If you have some time today, go search out Indusoft's channel on YouTube. They have some straightfoward "jump-start" introduction videos, and some really excellent advanced feature seminars there.

Here's an example of a function that customers very often asked for in FTView ME; "I want a button that opens a new window *and* sets a value in a PLC tag".

In FTView ME, you can configure Parameter Files, to substitute sections of similarly named tags when you open up a new window. But that doesn't let you take an action to set a tag, it just redirects the new window to different tags. The only workaround I ever found was to let the newly-opened window set the "active window" global value, then use the PLC to detect that value and take action. And it didn't work for small "on top" windows.

In IWS, I go to the Command tab for the button, select VBScript, and write two commands: one to Set a tag value, the other to Open the new window.

Similarly, in FTView ME, you can configure a Macro Button, which runs a separately configured "macro" that sets several tag values with a single button press.

In IWS, every button can set a dozen tags based on native-language Expressions, and can do it on Press, Release, Double-Click, or Multitouch. And that's an ordinary function for any button, not just a special kind of button.

VBScript in IWS is certainly limited in power compared to VBA, or VB, or C++, or Java. But in FactoryTalk View ME, there is no scripting language at all.

FTView ME does have an advantage with the FactoryTalk diagnostics display and log; if you fat-finger a single tag it will show up as failed, while in IWS you only get to see which block of data has a bad tag. That definitely makes you careful in typing out tag names. And FTView's RSLinx Enterprise tag browser is fantastic for quickly linking an object with a tag in a ControlLogix.

But I'll take IWS driver sheets any day. Want tags to update at a different rate in the background ? In IWS, create a driver sheet for DINTs, another for REALs, another for BOOLS, and set up a flasher bit to trigger them. In FTView.... sorry, one scan rate, per-screen, only.

Data logging ? In FTView, create a single data log model with a single update rate. In IWS, create as many Trend data logs as you want, with their own update rate. And if you like, install an SQL server on your computer and put them into a non-proprietary database.

Double-clicks ? Multi-touch ? Hover text for mouse users ? FTView is touchscreen and F-Key oriented because it is aimed at the PV+ hardware only. IWS can get pretty fancy with a multitouch screen, and I do some really elegant things with the HINT hover property and the mouse position tags on mouse-driven applications.

Deployment and testing ? In IWS, you can be connected to the runtime terminal from your development terminal. As soon as you hit "save", the runtime terminal screen flashes and your changes appear.

In FTView, you create a Runtime file (and get a coffee) and do a download (deep breaths, stretching exercises) and reboot the terminal (time for a smoke).

Installation ? I have IWS 7.0 and 7.1 running on the same computer and they don't conflict. I don't even upgrade FTView Studio on an engineering workstation; I always get a new Virtual Machine and start from scratch.

My company gives more latitude to engineers than I would like when it comes to HMI hardware. Looking back over the last handful of IWS installations we've had Hope Industrial monitors and B&R computers, then Dell rugged mini desktops and Dell 22" touchscreens, then Advantech, ADS-TEC, and Tangent all-in-one waterproof panel PCs.

Choose a panel PC (or just a screen + remote PC over HDMI and USB) vendor like Moxa or Advantech and ask them some pointed questions about lifecycles.
 
Also I believe indusoft lets you download a fully functional trial version, at least they used to, to play with it a bit before committing to a license.

I have used both and for basic systems would choose IWS over FTView ME, for reasons as Ken has mentioned never hit the software cant do that, easily, wall
 
IWS is downloadable (I don't know if they even make you sign up for a sales call; they should !) from the website and will run in Evaluation Mode for 40 hours total.

On my first project, that got me three days ahead while waiting for my USB hardkey to arrive, and the leftover time (months later) got me through a day when the development key dongle was left on my desk at home.
 
More of a hardware question.

I would agree. Start with the hardware needs first, then find out which PC or HMI will meet that.

In particular, certifications, shock/vibe and temperature.



On my first project, that got me three days ahead while waiting for my USB hardkey to arrive, and the leftover time (months later) got me through a day when the development key dongle was left on my desk at home.


That brings a couple questions to mind:

(1) How do you activate the runtime PC?
(2) How do you recover/replace a broken runtime PC with your project?
 
FactoryTalk View ME (and the PV+ terminal) have an advantage in ease of use, longevity and durability of hardware, and good connectivity to and integration with Rockwell controllers.

For me, that advantage is offset by the cumbersome installation, operation, and unreliability of FactoryTalk View Studio.

As a custom machinery OEM, the feature set and power of Indusoft Web Studio make it the runaway winner.

I came from a very strong FactoryTalk View background; most of you know my history as an RA employee in sales and support.

But when I started learning Indusoft Web Studio and saw the power and the features and the speed that it offered, I repeatedly suppressed the urge to weep with both gratitude and regret.

IWS has some bugs and some limitations and some drawbacks, sure. But when I was doing FTView ME applications, I routinely had to say "sorry, the software doesn't do that" and find workarounds or simplify the application. With IWS, if the native objects and functions don't do what I want, I can connect to external components and databases and programs easily.

If you want a hardware unit that will run a program built 13 years ago with no modifications at all and fit into the same cutout, then the PV+ is worthy of consideration.

But for my company, Indusoft Web Studio is our standard offering. We will use PV+ only if a customer requires it.

I use Indusoft daily for my OEM work.

I have a love hate relationship w/ it.

I keep a txt file open that I type into daily every time I run into a bug or want to scream.

But, it is one of the best hmi packages I have ever used, sans red lion.

I wish I was smart enough to write an hmi software development software program. One where I morphed all of the things I liked from all I have used into one good one like some sort of south of the border authentic burrito.

I digress.

Only thing that is killing me now is that I am stuck at the 1500 tag limit.
 
IWS is downloadable (I don't know if they even make you sign up for a sales call; they should !) from the website and will run in Evaluation Mode for 40 hours total.

On my first project, that got me three days ahead while waiting for my USB hardkey to arrive, and the leftover time (months later) got me through a day when the development key dongle was left on my desk at home.

VMs and snapshots are must haves for just that situation....wink wink.

My recommendation is to run far and fast from ME. Your mind and wallet will thank you later. The first time you try to move an application and completely screw up your local Factorytalk security or application security that is now full of 20 character jibberish you will wish you never had to touch it again.

Completely agree with others Indusoft evaluations. Really like it but wish it had a few things including the ability to organize displays in folders and a fully functional search and replace that found everything including nested tags in scripts.
 
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VBScript in IWS is certainly limited in power compared to VBA, or VB, or C++, or Java. But in FactoryTalk View ME, there is no scripting language at all.

Oh my god!

I don't need anymore info after this, but I will keep reading the rest of your post because apparently I am masochistic.
 
One more thing...

Last week we shipped a machine with an Indusoft runtime PC to a customer. Our field engineer flew out this weekend. Tight schedule, but everything's OK, the machine all arrived intact.

Except for the IWS license USB hardkey, which I found in my office this morning when they told me it was missing from the HMI PC.

Oh, s***.

I found a USB-over-IP indirection program called FlexiHub, by Eltima Software. I know those guys from their serial port analyzers; reasonable prices, very stable and safe. Downloaded and signed up for their free trial.

A half hour later, I have a VMWare virtual machine with Flexihub connected over a TeamViewer VPN to the customer site, activating their Indusoft HMI with an Engineering hardkey physically located on my desk. The runtime hardkey is in the care of UPS Next Day Air.

If this had been FactoryTalk, I still would have been OK because of the Grace Period in FactoryTalk Activation.

But it says a lot about Indusoft's good choice of an activation system that it can be this flexible and reliable, to run through an OS virtualization layer, a VPN layer, and a USB redirection layer.
 
Here's an example of a function that customers very often asked for in FTView ME; "I want a button that opens a new window *and* sets a value in a PLC tag".

In FTView ME, you can configure Parameter Files, to substitute sections of similarly named tags when you open up a new window. But that doesn't let you take an action to set a tag, it just redirects the new window to different tags. The only workaround I ever found was to let the newly-opened window set the "active window" global value, then use the PLC to detect that value and take action. And it didn't work for small "on top" windows.

I know this is a little off-topic, but in regards to the "On top" displays - could you have have a startup macro run when that display is loaded that sets a bit/integer on the PLC to allow it to know that screen is being launched? I haven't tried it but it seems like it should work - I am using shutdown macros on "On Top" displays successfully (to close all the active popups if there's a bunch stacked up on the screen).
 
I know this is a little off-topic, but in regards to the "On top" displays - could you have have a startup macro run when that display is loaded that sets a bit/integer on the PLC to allow it to know that screen is being launched? I haven't tried it but it seems like it should work - I am using shutdown macros on "On Top" displays successfully (to close all the active popups if there's a bunch stacked up on the screen).

Yes, you can use startup macros to do that. When the OnTop opens, it runs the macro, and writes a value to the PLC.

OnTop displays now (version 8) have a display number and Global Connection. You could use that to work with the PLC, or have it open/close OnTops as well.

No, you cannot use startup macros with parameters. In that case you need to use the Macro activeX inside the OnTop display. That will let you use parameters in the expression to write values to the PLC.
 

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