paradym
Member
OP
For myself, I don't hold a E.E. (Though I'm working on it!) Just 15+ years of "Hands-On" and a few years of classes at Pasadena City College, Mount SAC and Cal State Fullerton.
Have any of you had a hard time finding...
- Thread starter paradym
- Start date
seppoalanen
Member
In Finland, all electricians 'must can' use PLC-programmers in process-industy. Main rule is, if someone like education, she/he 'must' get it.
Re toolin Electrician/Electronics Tech
How to persue PlC's with 20yrs plus mostly as a Electroncs tech. I have had min experience with controlers. I want educate myself and have some OJT ? Currently I'm a laid off Electrician any sugestions!
How to persue PlC's with 20yrs plus mostly as a Electroncs tech. I have had min experience with controlers. I want educate myself and have some OJT ? Currently I'm a laid off Electrician any sugestions!
Hootnholler
Member
Hey LoTech 
Probably the best way to go is to take some classes dealing with the various plc's that you work with. I'm not sure from where you are located, so you will have to do a bit of research yourself on this part... But some suggestions: Local tech school. They usually offer some 'basic' classes with plc's, but may be enough for you to look a bit more desirable to any jobs you are seeking. The other option, try to take a 'specific' training course with a plc manufacturer. I have taken a few classes now with Allen Bradley (I'm located in Milwaukee) and it does help. The only limiting factor on my part is the fact that I do not have a degree in the field. In my scenario, I would look better to a manufacturer, ie, factory, as a technician, but not quite as desirable as a 'designer' for a panel building shop or such, without a degree.
What I have found in my area is most people that are seeking jobs as 'technicians', most employers are looking for someone who can troubleshoot more than program. Again, in my area, to sign up for a specific class with Allen Bradley, I have to go through a supplier. In my case, it's a company called 'Holt Electric'. Holt offers some great troubleshooting classes for the plc, but not much as far as the programming aspects of the job. The added bonus of taking a Holt class is the cost. A one day class with Holt on how to troubleshoot is $250, whereas the programming class with AB is over $1000. The RSLogix 500 class, intermediate level, is 4 days and $1495.
I guess the overall suggestion would be to take some of the troubleshooting classes, find a decent employer, and ask them about training for programming. Most offer a tuition reimbursement, and that is sure to save you quite a bit of $$$. It would be suggested to be up front during an interview on how you wish to grow in your field, but don't make it such a way to where you will price yourself out of a good job. The market is kinda tight (don't need to tell you that...), so try to pay the bills and work from there.
Just my $.02
Hoot
Probably the best way to go is to take some classes dealing with the various plc's that you work with. I'm not sure from where you are located, so you will have to do a bit of research yourself on this part... But some suggestions: Local tech school. They usually offer some 'basic' classes with plc's, but may be enough for you to look a bit more desirable to any jobs you are seeking. The other option, try to take a 'specific' training course with a plc manufacturer. I have taken a few classes now with Allen Bradley (I'm located in Milwaukee) and it does help. The only limiting factor on my part is the fact that I do not have a degree in the field. In my scenario, I would look better to a manufacturer, ie, factory, as a technician, but not quite as desirable as a 'designer' for a panel building shop or such, without a degree.
What I have found in my area is most people that are seeking jobs as 'technicians', most employers are looking for someone who can troubleshoot more than program. Again, in my area, to sign up for a specific class with Allen Bradley, I have to go through a supplier. In my case, it's a company called 'Holt Electric'. Holt offers some great troubleshooting classes for the plc, but not much as far as the programming aspects of the job. The added bonus of taking a Holt class is the cost. A one day class with Holt on how to troubleshoot is $250, whereas the programming class with AB is over $1000. The RSLogix 500 class, intermediate level, is 4 days and $1495.
I guess the overall suggestion would be to take some of the troubleshooting classes, find a decent employer, and ask them about training for programming. Most offer a tuition reimbursement, and that is sure to save you quite a bit of $$$. It would be suggested to be up front during an interview on how you wish to grow in your field, but don't make it such a way to where you will price yourself out of a good job. The market is kinda tight (don't need to tell you that...
), so try to pay the bills and work from there.Just my $.02
Hoot
rangerfreak
Member
Boy, oh boy! I sure wish that some of you that wanted a job that pays decent wages,AND is willing to send yoy to classes for various aspects of the job,(PLC training,AC/DC drives,etc.) lived in here in southern Indiana! If you had a good work record, dont like to miss work, and like OT, then the place I work for is the place for you! 
I kinda sound like a commercial don't I? Shame they dont pay me extra for recruiting.
If ya ever get up this way, just holler, and we will see what we can do. beerchug
I kinda sound like a commercial don't I? Shame they dont pay me extra for recruiting.
If ya ever get up this way, just holler, and we will see what we can do. beerchug
rangerfreak
Member
I live in a small town called Austin. Right along side of I65, about 30 miles north of Louisville Ky. Come on by some time and I will take ya to the factory and show you how wire is made! A rather interesting job. you would'nt think that a piece of wire went thru so much work just to be tucked into a wall or conduit!
Fred Floggle
Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Posts
- 173
change of career
I have worked with only a couple of sparks that I would let loose on a "proper" installation - networking , current loops and other signals , big motors and also be able to properly read drawings . These guys will not do mechanical work ( cannot ) welding , machining etc , and will only look at the most basic level of PLC , certainly no fault finding or programming.
Guess what , these guys make more money than me for much less grief , they don't have to work on late to get equipment running , and they don't have to tune a loop or take any other responsibility for production .
whilst I wouldn't want to go back to house or factory bashing , there is a lot said for it .
I just think I might go back to it - money is better . Any takers ?
I have worked with only a couple of sparks that I would let loose on a "proper" installation - networking , current loops and other signals , big motors and also be able to properly read drawings . These guys will not do mechanical work ( cannot ) welding , machining etc , and will only look at the most basic level of PLC , certainly no fault finding or programming.
Guess what , these guys make more money than me for much less grief , they don't have to work on late to get equipment running , and they don't have to tune a loop or take any other responsibility for production .
whilst I wouldn't want to go back to house or factory bashing , there is a lot said for it .
I just think I might go back to it - money is better . Any takers ?
elevmike
Member
Fred,
Just out of coruisoty, what's your connection with the UAE?
Just out of coruisoty, what's your connection with the UAE?
Rod
Member
How do you find?
I would look for ex-navy electronic techs - best I've seen on average. Adventerous and inquisitive to begin with.
Ask them to rattle off binary: 1,2,4,8..., if they can hit 16384; then ask what is 7F + 1. Two answers: 800 and 08 00.
Then ask for PI to 6 significant digits, the square root of 2, the RMS of a 100VAC sine wave.
Do they own a dual-channel 'o'-scope - a solderless breadboard
What is their favorite brand of hand tools.
What is their favorite beer.
What is/was their favorite car to work on.
Define bit, nibble (nybble), byte, word, long word, double long word.
Given a lever of 10 units wher do you place the fulcrum for 2:1 advantage; 5:1, 8:2.5
Given a pair of gears: input gear has 64 teeth the output gear has 16; the input gear is rotating CW at 3RPM at what direction and velocity is the output gear?
Do they have all ten fingers
----
They may be trainable
Ask for the square root of 1; the square root of -1.
If they answer the last question correctly do NOT HIRE - they will have your job!
I was trained (apprenticed) as a 4th generation carpenter/cabinet maker - GO FIGURE!
I would look for ex-navy electronic techs - best I've seen on average. Adventerous and inquisitive to begin with.
Ask them to rattle off binary: 1,2,4,8..., if they can hit 16384; then ask what is 7F + 1. Two answers: 800 and 08 00.
Then ask for PI to 6 significant digits, the square root of 2, the RMS of a 100VAC sine wave.
Do they own a dual-channel 'o'-scope - a solderless breadboard
What is their favorite brand of hand tools.
What is their favorite beer.
What is/was their favorite car to work on.
Define bit, nibble (nybble), byte, word, long word, double long word.
Given a lever of 10 units wher do you place the fulcrum for 2:1 advantage; 5:1, 8:2.5
Given a pair of gears: input gear has 64 teeth the output gear has 16; the input gear is rotating CW at 3RPM at what direction and velocity is the output gear?
Do they have all ten fingers
----
They may be trainable
Ask for the square root of 1; the square root of -1.
If they answer the last question correctly do NOT HIRE - they will have your job!
I was trained (apprenticed) as a 4th generation carpenter/cabinet maker - GO FIGURE!
Mickey
Lifetime Supporting Member
1-1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024,2048,4096,8192,16384
2- 7F+1==80 hex or 128 dec ?
3- PI=3.141xx ( best I can do)
4- sq. root of 2 1.414
5- RMS of 100 VAC= 70.7
6- no
7- Jensen
8- BUD Lite
9- I don't like working on cars, I do chaner my own oil ( Ford)
10- (3.3 to 6.7), (1.5 to 7.5), ( ? )
11- CCW 12 RPM
12- 8 fingers two thumbs
13- 1 and Square Root of a Negative Number
Date: 01/25/97 at 19:04:00
From: Dustin Pedlar
Subject: Square root of negative numbers
Is it possible to find the square root of a negative number and if so,
to what number system do these square roots belong? Could you please
explain how this number system works?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 01/25/97 at 20:47:34
From: Doctor Wallace
Subject: Re: Square root of negative numbers
Hi Dustin!
As you no doubt know, a square root is a number that when multiplied
by itself is equal to a given number. For example, 4 is the square
root of 16, since 4 x 4 = 16. Note, however, that -4 x -4 = 16, too.
We call 4 the positive square root of 16, and -4 the negative square
root of 16.
Now, you want to know if we can find the square root of a negative
number. Let's take -16. We need to find a number, call it x, such
that:
x times x (x^2) = -16
Now, we know that any number times itself must be positive, not
negative. Therefore, there is no such number x in the set of real
numbers.
A number x is defined, however, in the set of complex numbers. The
complex numbers are a superset of the real numbers. That is, the
complex numbers form a bigger set. The reals are a subset of the
complex.
A complex number has the form a + bi, where a and b are real numbers
and the i is a special number. The "a" is called the real part; the
"bi" is called the imaginary part. If we let a equal 0, then we have
an imaginary number. The set of imaginary numbers is also a subset of
the complex numbers. If we let b equal 0, then we have a regular real
number. This is why the reals are a subset of the complex: the reals
are just complex numbers that all have b=0, that is, no imaginary
part.
Now, the number i is defined to be equal to the square root of -1.
This means that i^2 (i squared) is equal to -1. So now we can find
the square root of -16.
Since -16 = (-1) 16, we can write:
sqr(-16) = sqr(-1) times sqr(16) (property of square roots)
sqr(-16) = i times 4
This is usually written as 4i. We can check by squaring 4i. We get
4 x 4 = 16 times i x i = sqr(-1) times sqr(-1) = -1, giving 16 times
-1 or -16.
I looked this up give me credit
How did i do ?
2- 7F+1==80 hex or 128 dec ?
3- PI=3.141xx ( best I can do)
4- sq. root of 2 1.414
5- RMS of 100 VAC= 70.7
6- no
7- Jensen
8- BUD Lite
9- I don't like working on cars, I do chaner my own oil ( Ford)
10- (3.3 to 6.7), (1.5 to 7.5), ( ? )
11- CCW 12 RPM
12- 8 fingers two thumbs
13- 1 and Square Root of a Negative Number
Date: 01/25/97 at 19:04:00
From: Dustin Pedlar
Subject: Square root of negative numbers
Is it possible to find the square root of a negative number and if so,
to what number system do these square roots belong? Could you please
explain how this number system works?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 01/25/97 at 20:47:34
From: Doctor Wallace
Subject: Re: Square root of negative numbers
Hi Dustin!
As you no doubt know, a square root is a number that when multiplied
by itself is equal to a given number. For example, 4 is the square
root of 16, since 4 x 4 = 16. Note, however, that -4 x -4 = 16, too.
We call 4 the positive square root of 16, and -4 the negative square
root of 16.
Now, you want to know if we can find the square root of a negative
number. Let's take -16. We need to find a number, call it x, such
that:
x times x (x^2) = -16
Now, we know that any number times itself must be positive, not
negative. Therefore, there is no such number x in the set of real
numbers.
A number x is defined, however, in the set of complex numbers. The
complex numbers are a superset of the real numbers. That is, the
complex numbers form a bigger set. The reals are a subset of the
complex.
A complex number has the form a + bi, where a and b are real numbers
and the i is a special number. The "a" is called the real part; the
"bi" is called the imaginary part. If we let a equal 0, then we have
an imaginary number. The set of imaginary numbers is also a subset of
the complex numbers. If we let b equal 0, then we have a regular real
number. This is why the reals are a subset of the complex: the reals
are just complex numbers that all have b=0, that is, no imaginary
part.
Now, the number i is defined to be equal to the square root of -1.
This means that i^2 (i squared) is equal to -1. So now we can find
the square root of -16.
Since -16 = (-1) 16, we can write:
sqr(-16) = sqr(-1) times sqr(16) (property of square roots)
sqr(-16) = i times 4
This is usually written as 4i. We can check by squaring 4i. We get
4 x 4 = 16 times i x i = sqr(-1) times sqr(-1) = -1, giving 16 times
-1 or -16.
I looked this up give me credit
How did i do ?
Rod
Member
Mickey,
Sorry dude, I can't hire you, you understand imaginary numbers.
BUT! Since you knew to find the answers for yourself I am forced to give you a 95% - in tis line of work that is a passing grade.
Now, where are the others?
Rod (The CNC dude)
Sorry dude, I can't hire you, you understand imaginary numbers.
BUT! Since you knew to find the answers for yourself I am forced to give you a 95% - in tis line of work that is a passing grade.
Now, where are the others?
Rod (The CNC dude)
leitmotif
Member
JOBS
Am sure I am missing out on jobs because I do not have the PLC knowledge and training.
Have read all messages in the thread and find that people are looking for
1. Smart - I am
2. Trainable ex Navy Nuc
3. Motivated Wanted to get out of electrical so switched to safety - liked it - went to college to improve ability and knowledge - got MS in industrial hygiene and safety.
4. Multi capable jack of all trades - strong suite general trouble shooting problem identification and resolution, electrical, complicated interactive systems, welding,
5. Like to explore new "things" ie how does this thing work? OR how can it be improved?
Found out after 20 years that safety and hygiene were not my true calling
(did not and do like being stuck in office).
Am back in maintenance and electrical work and happier with it.
Going to school this quarter to learn PLC and VFD. Am studying on own.
looking for employer with the right qualifications who appreciates good worker. Am located in Seattle, open to moving.
Agree for the most part with a previous post (below) regarding jobs in Washington state (USA).
Dan
QUOTE
Hi all. I'm new to the site, and fairly new to plc's. I'm a former Navy Nuc, and it's been tough to find a position where I could start learning to program. At 46 years old, it's getting harder to convince someone to give you a leg up. With Washingtons down economy, I've ended up in the lumber industry, and my new boss wants to send me to an A-B class!
Done a few modifications on different plc's, per other programmers instructions, have been reading everything I could get my hands on, written a couple of simple programs and working on a couple of others. The interesting thing is, during various interviews for work over the last few years, most places expect to contract out to independant contractors. I hope to improve myself so I can improve my marketability. Heck, I like learning. I'd probably die of boredom if I did'nt learn something new every day. Apparently, from what some of you have said, and what I've seen, that attitude is'nt as common as I thought it would be.
Paradym, my area is'nt that high unless you've got the full license.
END QUOTE
Am sure I am missing out on jobs because I do not have the PLC knowledge and training.
Have read all messages in the thread and find that people are looking for
1. Smart - I am
2. Trainable ex Navy Nuc
3. Motivated Wanted to get out of electrical so switched to safety - liked it - went to college to improve ability and knowledge - got MS in industrial hygiene and safety.
4. Multi capable jack of all trades - strong suite general trouble shooting problem identification and resolution, electrical, complicated interactive systems, welding,
5. Like to explore new "things" ie how does this thing work? OR how can it be improved?
Found out after 20 years that safety and hygiene were not my true calling
(did not and do like being stuck in office).
Am back in maintenance and electrical work and happier with it.
Going to school this quarter to learn PLC and VFD. Am studying on own.
looking for employer with the right qualifications who appreciates good worker. Am located in Seattle, open to moving.
Agree for the most part with a previous post (below) regarding jobs in Washington state (USA).
Dan
QUOTE
Hi all. I'm new to the site, and fairly new to plc's. I'm a former Navy Nuc, and it's been tough to find a position where I could start learning to program. At 46 years old, it's getting harder to convince someone to give you a leg up. With Washingtons down economy, I've ended up in the lumber industry, and my new boss wants to send me to an A-B class!
Done a few modifications on different plc's, per other programmers instructions, have been reading everything I could get my hands on, written a couple of simple programs and working on a couple of others. The interesting thing is, during various interviews for work over the last few years, most places expect to contract out to independant contractors. I hope to improve myself so I can improve my marketability. Heck, I like learning. I'd probably die of boredom if I did'nt learn something new every day. Apparently, from what some of you have said, and what I've seen, that attitude is'nt as common as I thought it would be.
Paradym, my area is'nt that high unless you've got the full license.
END QUOTE
I have all the luck - been sparky for 25 years - program - tune loops network and all that stuff along with the point to point stuff of wiring - and they want me to take a pay cut to be a programmer LOL - The shop i work for has 4 or 5 competent plc techs/electricians in it . SO it just depends where ya look
ChuckM
Member
- Join Date
- Aug 2003
- Posts
- 266
My HR department keeps sending me people who have say they have PLC experience. When I interview them and ask what kind of PLC experience, they reply Allen Bradley. When I ask them which models, they say they don't know. Then my plant manager is on me wanting to know why I won't hire any of the applicants and telling me we need to get someone in here. Were I to hire one of these guys, then I would be catching a rash of **** because they can't get the job done. I can't win.
When I do get someone who appears that they can actually program a PLC and knows what RSLogix is, they don't want to do the other less interesting jobs that require getting their hands dirty. I won't hire them either. If I have damn near worn out a Kennedy I see no reason that someone else can't.
When I do get someone who appears that they can actually program a PLC and knows what RSLogix is, they don't want to do the other less interesting jobs that require getting their hands dirty. I won't hire them either. If I have damn near worn out a Kennedy I see no reason that someone else can't.
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