How can all you AB guys stand it?

[Eddie Willers]

What was it that Samuel Clemens once said about wrestling with a pig ?

 

[ChuckM]

Instead of pursuing the Pico, investigate the Moeller EASY.

And they are available through Newark so you can compare Newark's price as well.

 

[Pierre]

Never forget who's the CUSTOMER is.

Against stupidity the gods themselves struggle in vain.

If you have to remember f**kin' anything, THE MANUFACTURER HAS FAILED!

If you can't get prices and stock check fast,THE MANUFACTURER HAS FAILED!

If you have to suck up to even have a glimpse of there soooo good equipments, THE MANUFACTURER HAS FAILED!

ANY time you're made to feel that you've done something wrong,THE MANUFACTURER HAS FAILED!

Remember, the early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

I'll tell you, some say they have improved in the last year, I tinck that light they see come from a locomotive.

 

[Rick Densing]

I don't have much time from when the power gets turned on a new machine to shipment. Often, designs get changed on the fly. If I need common AB components, I can have them here in an hour and a half. The same can be said of GE. I haven't used any others lately. If I need a price on an item, I call and they give it to me. No time at all. I would feel uncomfortable with a supplier that always at least a day away.

 

[elevmike]

Rick,

I must admit that you do have a good point. Fortunately in my line of work we've been able to pertty much standarize our panels so we can stock a min of replacement parts etc. Additionally to further cut the cost of static stock, I often check out Ebay for PLC parts, and only buy new, ususlly for 1/2 the cost from the OEM.

On Ebay GE series one parts are so cheap that I stock the jobsites with replacement parts.

In the construction busniess we have a saying...

Proper Prior Planning Prevents Pi** Poor Porformance!

The call it the 7 "Ps" of construction.

Mike

 

[Rick Densing]

You ever have a customer say after all the approval and progress reviews say, "Can we have it do this instead?"

 

[Pierre]

You ever have a customer say after all the approval and progress reviews say, "Can we have it do this instead?"

They call it "Just a small modification."

 

[kamenges]

"I want it EXACTLY the same as the last one except..."


I used to work for an OEM that put me more in Mike's position in terms of parts. I must admit I consequently had a lower opinion of the AB distribution model at that time, too. Where I'm at now, Rick's point about getting something immediately is a bigger consideration that it used to be.

Keith

 

[elevmike]

Rick,

The answer to your last post is yes. However as I said, we are in the unique position of usually being limited to having to use only digital on/off IO (except in the case of some pre-existing older analog drives). Most of these changes require only programming, and/or some other field device that can usually be obtained locally if in a hurry. In my area Mac&Mac(an AB dist) & GALCO both carry a large varity of sensors, switches, etc.. and they are located within 100ft of each other. So if one dosnt have it the other one may. When we are under the gun we dont ask about picing, we just go get it, and the guys at the counter are usually very knowelgeable.

Back in '79 when I convinced the boss to drop the all-relay jobs and go with PLCs the 1st stop I made was at Mac&Mac because I saw AB and Gould equipment in their showroom when I was picking up other parts. They tried to be helpfull but at the time this required me to go there often to pickup demos and return them etc..

The boss was dead set on AB because he was a WWII vet and carried a grudge, however his busniess sense finally took over when the Omron guy flew in from Slumberge Ill and spent three days in our office with all the equipment on the confrence room table. He gave us a C60K to boot. That service sealed the deal.

Eventually AutomationDirects' pricing, and website pulled us away from Omron.

I'm not going to say anything bad about AB equipment. It's just that the marketplace is a different enviroment than they are accustomed to, and thats why they are slipping. If they are going to continue to sell through local distributers than they need to do it like a convienent storefront operation, extended hours, up front pricing, and on the shelf, like going to your local computer store, with much less fuss.

When we bought our fist computer we delt with IBM for weeks before it landed in our office. Now days I can go to Compusa, or call Dell. Times have changed.

I would like to wrap up my last post to this thread by apologizing to Eddie for that jab regarding the Saturday morning thing. I know it was unfair because ALL PLC equipment fails from time to time for a variaty of reasons. But, Eddie, you have to admit, you left such a wide opening I just couldnt resist.

I'll see you guys on some other, more productive thread. I think this one is panned out now.

Mike

 

[Stephen Luft]

You have to remember that a distributor can only be as good as the manufacturer they distribute. Granted, there will always be exceptions to the rules.

If the manufacturer doesn't give great training, then the distributor will reflect that, regardless of how good the distributor is. You could probably relate it to a computer - GIGO.

It is not the same if you have an exceptional manufacturer who provides excellent support and training. Some distributors, no matter how well you train them, the concept of your product will just never take hold.

Up until about three years ago, we had many distributors on our list. This didn't do anything to increase our sales, because no matter how much you trained them on how to sell your product, it came down to the part number and price approach.

This is not a blanket statement by any means...If a distributor doesn't do integration, then they are mearly order takers. The only value you are receiving is a place to purchase your bill of materials. If you don't require support, then that distributor will be satisfactory.

If you feel that you are purchasing a product and expect a certain level of support from the source you are purchasing from, then you must consider:

1) Who offers you the type of support you require, be it technical or sales?
2) You must also consider the product itself. Will it meet the highest percentage of your application vs. another product? 100% is of course the target.

The cheapest price may not always be the best option if you are expending time waiting for support. Your source should know the products they are selling, regardless of it being a distributor or manufacturer.

We now have only a handful of integrators listed on our site who are successful in applying the concepts of our products to existing and potential customers. Our product will not be the cheapest, nor will our integrators services...what you are paying for is their knowledge and experience. I have three integrators that I wouldn't blink twice in recommending them to any potential customer.

If you are the type of person who is a part number/price person, then the traditional distributors and even automation direct are for you. If you are the type of company that looks at each customer as an individual solution, then you will require more support, either from the distributor or manufacturer.

Remember, the larger the company, the more layers you will have to go through in order to get what you will need...whether it be product, information or a live person to speak with.

How many times when you call do you actually get a live person over voice mail? That is a cost in itself...waiting for someone to get back with you...lost productivity.

What this whole post boils down to is that it is all about relationships. In business you develop relationships.

- customer / vendor
- supplier / customer
- tech support
- sales
- service

Mike isn't satisfied with his present relationship, regarding his local AB distributor. There are three things that can be done.

1.) Work harder to make your existing relationship work with constructive criticism to the powers that be at your distributor. Let them know that you are not satisfied with their level of service and or support. Write them a letter as to what you require from them and what can be done better.

2.) Find another source that you can develop a business relationship with. A company that is on the same page you are. This may even require changing some of the products you currently use, in order to receive the level of service you require.

3.) As always you can do nothing and let everything remain status quo. The only thing this will accomplish is to increase your level of aggravation.

God Bless,