ISA S88.01 Batch Control

[lucifer]

Hello e'body,

Currently I am working on a project which is suppose to be executed with ISA S88.01 Batch Control Standard (Area Unit,Control modules, Phases & Actions)

Can uou please tell me which PLC/ DCS supports or makes programming easy with this standard ? Or any PLC/ DCS with IEC 61131 compliance will do the tase?

Please revert back.

Regards,

Mandar Joshi.

 

[Ken Moore]

In my opinion none of the DCS or PLC's can be programmed to be compliant with the standard. Have you read it? I believe the only way to achieve compliance is to use some type of batching software, outside of the control system. Once you have decided on a batch engine, you must then write your control scheme to interface with the batch engine.
At my facility we have seveal batch operations compliant with the standard, they all use some type of batching software.
We have a Foxboro I/A DCS system and use I/A batch with that.
We have Allen-Bradley PLC-5 systems and TI-505 systems, we use iBatch (GE/Intellution) with those. I understand that Wonderware also makes a nice batch interface, I believer it is/was called Director, but haven't used it.

We also have one really really old system circa 1985, that uses Qbasic as the batch engine. However, it is not compliant with the standard, and I would not recommend " rolling your own".

Ken

 

[Gerry]

Rockwell, Honeywell, Intellution, and probably others, sell batch software authored by a company called Sequencia, formerly called PID.

While it supports the standard, I would be very reluctant to say it makes it easy.

 

[lucifer]

Batch Control softwares

Hi Ken,

You correctly mentioned about the Wonderware Direktor software. We are using Siemens APACS (4 mation/ProcessSuite) with Direktor.

In couple of last posts I tried asking some information on this but absolutely nobody replied, so I changed the question.

I am relatively new in batch control , but I have gone through the standard. Can you tell me where can I find documentation regarding how Batch Control Software work/ how we are supposed to use,configure them?
Also it would be nice if I can get information on the plstform I mentioned.

Regards,

Mandar Joshi

<[email protected]>

 

[ushidayo]

How the software works and how it is configured is specific to which software you will use. If the process design has been done with S88 in mind, and the software is structured in the way S88 describes, it should not be too painful to automate the system. But if S88 has not been used in the process design then you will have a very difficult time automating it. Make sure everyone in the project team (Project Manager, Process Engineers, Control Engineers, Tea Lady, etc.) is fully aware of what is involved in using S88.

For more background information there was a book published a while ago which was written by two guys who put together a batch control system for Ben & Jerrys Ice Cream (a web search should find it's title).

Good Luck.

One more time, S88 is a Process Design issue as well as an automation issue

 

[lucifer]

ushidayo,

Can you give some specific information/example?
I tried to search it on ne but didn't get enough it.

Regards,

Mandar
<[email protected]>

 

[Allen Nelson]

Mandar:

The only PLC that I know of that is intrinsically S88.01 "compatable" (it isn't a regulatory standard, and so can't be "compliant") is Emerson's DeltaV.

Of course, it's not really a PLC, but a PLC/SCADA hybrid (or "mini-DCS"), and the batch engine is based on Intellution's (now GE/Fanuc's) iBatch extention to iFix (which originated in the aforementioned Sequentia (which is now owned by Rockwell and marketed as RSBatch).

But you probably don't need a full-blown Batch SCADA system to implement S88. I've done several S88 systems using AB PLC-5 and SLCs.

All S88 does is give you a framework to organize your project.

From a hardware side,

• you start with control modules (valves, pumps, and such),
• group them together to get equipment modules (PID Loop controls, transfer systems);
• group the equipment modules to form units (batch tanks, etc.; basically any place where product, or intermediary product collects), group the units into areas (production lines, from raw material to finished product), and so forth.

From the procedural side,

• you start with phases (add material, heat the tank),
• build the phases into equipement procdures,
• group those into unit procedures (make product).

So very much of how you will wind up coding your system is going to depend on the level of sophistication that you need in terms of

• the physical desigh (is the piping rigid, or can an operator connect just about anything with anything?),
• the complexity of the recipe (if ingredient X is not available, can I substitute ingredient Y?);
• scalability the recipe, (i.e., I can double the weight setpoint, but I don't double the temperature setpoint; and what about the agititator time (double, the same, or somewhere in between?))
• operator training level (does the chemist who comes up with a recipe need a degree in programming, or should he just pick the phases that he wants, put them in order, and give them their setpoints?

None of it is easy. But once you understand what you are trying to do, you can do it on any PLC platform. I have my doubts as to whether all the batch engines that run on PCs make it any easier. They certainly make it more expensive.

 

[Ron Beaufort]

I feel your pain ...

Greetings lucifer,

see if this (attached) RSLogix5 sample program helps ... this is an official Allen-Bradley sample file ... specifically it was not written by me ... you might also want to take a look at this thread too ... I’m afraid that there’s not much help there ... but at least you might not feel so “all alone” in your quest ...

incidentally, I never had to go any further with my “batch” exercise than just reading through the samples ... the prospective customer is still in the “do we REALLY want to do this?” stage ...

 

[lucifer]

Hi Ron,

Your mail was really helpful........it didn't help exactly in a way I wanted but other way round. You said it right about "I am not alone in the quest." The thing u faced about s88.01 (no response), I faced it right when I was asking for help on Siemens APACS/ Direktor.

Regarding the file you send, that is a .RSP file & my RSLogix 5000 doesn't open it. Am I suppose to open it with '500 or what?

I am also attaching a word document by Sequentia elaborating S88.01

If anyone has to share something, or a different view, please come ahead.

Best Regards,

Mandar

 

[Ron Beaufort]

Greetings Mandar,

sorry about the "I can't read this" ... you'd need RSLogix5 (for the PLC-5 platform) to open this .RSP file ...

but maybe this will help ... I've "printed" it out to a .PDF file which you should be able to open with Adobe Reader ...

[attachment]

hope this helps ...

 

[lucifer]

clsoe the loop?

Thanx Ron.......

I think you helped me the most you can & now I should fight my battle on my own.......

I am trying to integrate Siemens APACS with Wonderware InBatch, but this much of insight was necessary.

Best Regards,

Mandar