New PLC old HMI, PLC5 to CompactLogix Transition

[kellian]

Maybe look at the redlion data station plus for the protocol conversion. Quite flexible and not overly expensive. Can also hmi into it.

 

[JRoss]

Fortunately I have an ace in the hole - I know a service tech who used to work for the OEM, and now runs a business servicing their old equipment. He is a wealth of information.

 

[JRoss]

For what it's worth:



The PLC5 mapping function in RS Logix 5000 did the trick.



I converted the program and downloaded it to an L35E I borrowed from my distributor. I went on site today and connected the L35E to the user interface PC in place of the PLC5, and the communications worked.



Thanks for all the input!

 

[JRoss]

Oookaay...

So I'm looking for a little more brain trust on this project. I took the uploaded PLC5 program and converted it to an L35E, added the SLC/PLC5 mapping. I downloaded to a borrowed L35E with no I/O attached, and connected to the old PC with a null modem serial cable. Rebooted the PC, and it seemed to connect to the PLC. I changed a value of the product count on the PLC, and the change showed up on the PC. Works, right?

I'm now in the middle of installation of the new system. I moved down to an L32E, as the program was fairly small, and added some local I/O, a PF525 and six 1747-AENTR for existing SLC based remote I/O. Turned on the system, and the PLC won't communicate with the PLC. When the PC boots, it does an autoconfigure to find the PLC. When it's not connected, or has a bad cable, it can't find anything. When I use a null modem cable, it finds the PLC, but won't initiate communications.

I've checked and double-checked the settings, and I can't find anything different or incorrect between the serial settings on the PLC5, L35E and L32E programs. Is there some kind of difference between the L32E and the L35E other than memory size?

The PC is running MS-DOS and Wintelligent Linx (not sure of version). There's an error message that flashes on the screen briefly before the HMI program loads, but it disappears to quickly to read. Tomorrow I'm going to video record the boot screen to try to capture that. I was able to exit into DOS, but my skills there are... lacking. One of the times I exited, I got an message followed by a config screen that seemed to indicate that Wintelligent Linx was set up for DH+. However, the PC is connected using a serial cable to Ch0 of the PLC.

Here's a dropbox link to the three PLC programs, pics of the two screen shots, and a pic of the PLC5. Anybody have any ideas?

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cgc1yze6hcegz0s/AACHAOhQwSk6d27TvkE3IBeRa?dl=0

 

[Ken Roach]

The serial port and system protocol configurations do look identical on the -L32E and the -L35E.

I noticed that you have Counter and Timer arrays configured in the PLC/SLC mapping.

That won't work the way you expect; the PLC/SLC Mapping feature won't automatically convert the byte offsets to account for the 32-bit Preset and Accumulators in a Logix timer. I haven't tested carefully enough to see what the Logix will do when you send it a request for a Counter or Timer and have it mapped like this.

The other thing is that both CompactLogix seem to have their Channel 0 DF1 node number set for zero. Because your WinLinx is using the KF2 driver mode, it means it's looking for a specific Node Number that should be the DH+ node number of that PLC-5 if WinLinx was previously set up to use that 1785-KE module. Or, maybe it's set up so that the Channel 0 port has a specific nonzero node number. I don't have RSLogix 5 installed to see what that is.

Maybe when you tested that 1769-L35E, you configured the serial port for the correct DH+ station address, but didn't save that in your offline file.

 

[JRoss]

Ken, not sure what you would need to see, but here are the config screenshots from RSLogix 5.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0e5ai4pyzlh1zdz/ConfigScreenShots.docx?dl=0

I think the 1785-KE must have been used previously. It's connected by a short blue hose to Channel 1A of the processor, but nothing is attached to the two serial ports at present. Channel 1B is used for the remote I/O and main drive.

 

[Ken Roach]

If the old serial HMI was connected to the 1785-KE module, it would have been sending requests with a DF1 target address of "2". The KE would then send those on to DH+ node 2.

Try changing the DF1address on the CompactLogix from 0 to 2.

 

[JRoss]

You mean the Station Address parameter in the System Protocol tab of the controller properties?

 

[GaryS]

JRoss
I put this out here for food for thought
This looks like a project I did some years back
Leave the PLC5 running and edit the ladder to run just a few rungs (just to keep it active)
Leave the PLC5 data table structure unchanged
When you convert the PLC5 program to a Logiix Processor you should have created a set of tags that will be same as the PLC5 data table (B:3 N:7 F:9) see where i am going
On most of the older HMI's they assembled the data in groups I know I always did.
As example
1 table for data to the HMI N:12 250 words
2 table for the date from the HMI N:13 250 Words

Connect the new Logicx processor to message the necessary data between the PLC5 and the Logix processor data highway - Ethernet ect. (sync the data table and Tags)

Connect the old HMI tor the PLC5 using the original serial cable just like it was before
The old HMI will read and write to the PLC5 data table which is synced to the Logix processor tags
If you can find a PLC5/30E or larger on ebay it would work out better because you can connect the 2 processors over Ethernet
Then just update the HMI whenever you want

You should be able to get 4 slot rack on ebay if not let me know I may be able to get one for you

The one I did before was as set of PLC2's to Control Logix. I had to use data highway plus on the Logix to data highway on the PLC2 a custom DOS based c code operator interface. The principle is the same

 

[JRoss]

OK, here's the state of things. I tried the following:

1. I video recorded the boot process and verified that the error I'm getting is the same as the one I put in Dropbos (link above). So the PC is seeing the PLC, but not recognizing it. Not surprising since the CompactLogix probably didn't exist when the system was built. Though I'm still baffled as to why my test PLC worked.

2. I tried changing the DF1 station address to 2, which didn't fix it. I did discover that the 1785-KE was used for a modem for remote connectivity, so I don't think the PC was ever connected that way.

3. I took the version of the program that I used for testing, changed the PLC type from L35E to L32E and downloaded it. This also didn't help.

4. I went online with both the L32E and the PLC5/30 using serial to make sure the ports definitely worked. The RS Linx auto configure returned the exact same settings for both PLCs (19200, 8, none, 1).

Finally I decided to try Gary's suggestion. After building a cable and adjusting some dip switches, I managed to go onine with the PLC5 using the 1785-KE adapter card. I added a jump instruction to disable all the code in the PLC5 (not ready to delete yet!). I then connected it to the L32E serial port and set up messaging to read/write the appropriate data tables. I didn't have an operator to try running the machine, but the alarms and data seemed to be working on the HMI. I may have to massage some things, but I think the machine should run.

I still consider this an interim solution. The whole point of the upgrade project was to eliminate the obsolete hardware from the system to avoid downtime. I'll buy a set of used PLC5 spares if I have to, but I'm looking for a more current solution. Something is still being manufactured. Ideally I can find a third-party gateway to do the job, something that the PC will interpret as a PLC5. Failing that, a SLC 5/05 may work, though that would be more expensive.

I'm also going to borrow the L35E from my distributor again to redo the testing I did months ago. I want to make sure I'm not crazy! I know that worked before!

 

[GaryS]

JRoss
its good that you just added a jump to the main program that's what I would have done that wayit keep the original program ready if needed

The PLC5 are still in production and I know they are available on ebay cheep a few months ago I could have gotten you several 5/80E a client of mine pulled them out when they upgraded there plant.
this was only intended to be an interim solution but now you can build the new HMI and debug it while they use to old one.
if you could find a 5/30E Ethernet then the messaging would go much faster

Jeremy you are local to me, pm me and maybe we can get together for drinks or something

 

[JRoss]

PLC5 production was stopped at the end of last year. I can still get repairs and refurbished units through my distributor, but no new models. But yeah, it should work.

Thanks!

 

[GaryS]

so they finely puled the plug on the PLC5
there is a lot of them out there still in service and pulled out sitting on a shelf
good luck

 

[Ken Roach]

The only way to tell for sure what's going on is to put a serial analyzer between the HMI and the controller and figure out what function codes and addresses the HMI is trying to access.

Any chance the HMI used to read the S2 Status file in the PLC-5 ? You wouldn't necessarily see that in a translated program.

 

[JRoss]

No idea, but I doubt it. The HMI is there mostly for the "Settings" PC that controls the proprietary drives I mentioned way back in the OP. I've only found a few fields and buttons that interact with the PLC.

I've never used a serial analyzer. How would I go about doing that?