What options for uploading from an old GE Fanuc Series One PLC?

[strantor]

Got an old machine with a IC610CPU104 CPU. A bit of research told me this is the same as DL305 so DirectSoft from AutomationDirect should work, but according to their website it won't (only works for GE Fanuc Series One Plus). So what other options are there? I found the manual for it which prescribes software called LogicMaster1 running on a certain version of MS DOS, maybe on a special machine. Sounds like unobtainium. Any clever tricks available like transplanting the memory into DL305 and then uploading?

 

[Steve Bailey]

I can probably get you a copy of Logicmaster One. It will probably run under DOSBox, best results with the oldest OS you have available. You will need the communications module attached to the CPU. AD offers both a RS232 and a RS422 version. I would recommend running LM1 on a computer with a real serial port. I have never tried using a USB/serial converter on a Series One, but I have had issues using it with newer PLCs than the Series One.
Another option would be to simply transcribe the program from the PLC to paper using the handheld programmer. The CPU104 only has 1.7K program memory, so it won't take forever.
A final option would be to simply develop an operational spec for the machine and start from a clean sheet of paper with a current PLC. In my opinion, the only reason AD keeps the DL305 in the catalog is for bragging rights.
Edit:
I just remembered another option. Back in the day you could save from the CPU to a cassette tape. It might be an interesting exercise to see if you could upload to the audio jack on your computer to an mp3 file and download to another CPU module.

 

[strantor]

I can probably get you a copy of Logicmaster One. It will probably run under DOSBox, best results with the oldest OS you have available. You will need the communications module attached to the CPU. AD offers both a RS232 and a RS422 version. I would recommend running LM1 on a computer with a real serial port. I have never tried using a USB/serial converter on a Series One, but I have had issues using it with newer PLCs than the Series One.
Another option would be to simply transcribe the program from the PLC to paper using the handheld programmer. The CPU104 only has 1.7K program memory, so it won't take forever.
A final option would be to simply develop an operational spec for the machine and start from a clean sheet of paper with a current PLC. In my opinion, the only reason AD keeps the DL305 in the catalog is for bragging rights.
Edit:
I just remembered another option. Back in the day you could save from the CPU to a cassette tape. It might be an interesting exercise to see if you could upload to the audio jack on your computer to an mp3 file and download to another CPU module.

Yes, please, if you can provide LogicMaster1 that would be awesome. If you can't attach it here or need to discuss offline for any reason my email is [email protected].

I have an old XP PC with hardware serial ports and a floppy drive I could use, maybe even install DOS on it as native OS if need-be, although I haven't done that in a couole of decades and it probably wouldn't be quick & painless. I'll try my DOSBox first.

I agree the audio jack MP3 experiment does sound intriguing but I need to do more than just upload; I need to view the program and translate it to something newer. Ultimate goal is to upgrade to a modern PLC with minimal downtime. I'm only a few years older than this PLC and I've never used a handheld programmer. The prospect of transcribing on paper is daunting to me. I think I could write a new program from scratch with no uploaded example faster than I could even figure out how to use a handheld.

 

[JeffKiper]

I have done several handheld to paper conversion over the years. They arent as bad as you think. Long and tedious? Yes. You will be very intimate with the system afterwards.

I learned on GE series 1 and Automation Direct 305. I would buy the Automation Direct software and the 232 adapters. Ive only ran into 1 system that didnt work with their software. I made a few cables that allowed me to upload the runnign system from the PLC. AD said it wouldn't work on because they didnt have the cables. It was worth a shot and we got the customers up and running. 1 job I remember was an old PLC that the plastic was so brittle it was only held on my the ribbon cables. I had to find an old 4 wire RJ?? cable. It was the same cable as a real hand held telephone from way back when. It was in the IT closed of junk. I cut the end off and wired to a spare DB9 adapter, I keep in the serial box of the van. Within a few minutes I could see what the program was. I think it was the TI version of the PLC.

 

[strantor]

I would buy the Automation Direct software and the 232 adapters. Ive only ran into 1 system that didnt work with their software. I made a few cables that allowed me to upload the runnign system from the PLC. AD said it wouldn't work on because they didnt have the cables. It was worth a shot and we got the customers up and running.

Oh, wow, ok. Normally things that should work, don't. It is so rare for things that shouldn't work, to work, that I didn't even consider the possibility. I will give it a shot.

 

[5618]

I agree with Jeff that using the programmer isn't bad. I learned mainly on the Series One and the 5TI. If you have the programmer available, a quick way to get a backup is plug it in and record video of the display while you keep pressing next. That way in case something happens, you can at least transcribe it from that. That will also give you an idea of how long is the program.

The programmer is all I had in those days. I never used computer software with those. I was used to it and didn't think it was bad. The only thing that might take a bit to figure out is syntax of the structure of complex rungs with multiple paths of STR (start rung), AND, OR , & OUT. Simple rungs are straightforward. The manual explains that well if you have it.

The system is basic ladder with typical discrete (XIO XIC OTE OTL OTU in Rockwell), timers and counters. Beyond that, Shift Register and Master Control relay for enable / disable of a series of rungs are the rest of the available instructions. I think multiple outputs were allowed per rung.

 

[Steve Bailey]

The issue with DirectSoft and older Series One CPUs might be related to memory size. There were three memory options for the Series One, 700 words, 1.7 kWords, and 3.7 kWords. The CPU104 model is the 1.7 kWord version. When GE and Koyo parted ways and Koyo partnered with TI, they discontinued the 700 Word and 1.7 kWord versions and only offered the 3.7 kWord model. So, it's possible that the note in the DirectSoft manual is because that software will allow you to create a larger program than can fit in the CPU you have. It's certainly worth trying to see if you can upload from your unit.
I found a 3.5" floppy that has LM1 on it. I have to get a battery charged for the only functioning computer I have with a floppy drive to see if it is still readable. If it is I'll make a copy and email it.
Do you have the data communications module? It attaches to the same place on the CPU as the handheld and gets its power from the 24 VDC terminals on the power supply.

 

[strantor]

The issue with DirectSoft and older Series One CPUs might be related to memory size. There were three memory options for the Series One, 700 words, 1.7 kWords, and 3.7 kWords. The CPU104 model is the 1.7 kWord version. When GE and Koyo parted ways and Koyo partnered with TI, they discontinued the 700 Word and 1.7 kWord versions and only offered the 3.7 kWord model. So, it's possible that the note in the DirectSoft manual is because that software will allow you to create a larger program than can fit in the CPU you have. It's certainly worth trying to see if you can upload from your unit.
I found a 3.5" floppy that has LM1 on it. I have to get a battery charged for the only functioning computer I have with a floppy drive to see if it is still readable. If it is I'll make a copy and email it.
Do you have the data communications module? It attaches to the same place on the CPU as the handheld and gets its power from the 24 VDC terminals on the power supply.

Thank you so much! I don't have the DCU yet but have one on order

 

[strantor]

I agree with Jeff that using the programmer isn't bad. I learned mainly on the Series One and the 5TI. If you have the programmer available, a quick way to get a backup is plug it in and record video of the display while you keep pressing next. That way in case something happens, you can at least transcribe it from that. That will also give you an idea of how long is the program.

The programmer is all I had in those days. I never used computer software with those. I was used to it and didn't think it was bad. The only thing that might take a bit to figure out is syntax of the structure of complex rungs with multiple paths of STR (start rung), AND, OR , & OUT. Simple rungs are straightforward. The manual explains that well if you have it.

The system is basic ladder with typical discrete (XIO XIC OTE OTL OTU in Rockwell), timers and counters. Beyond that, Shift Register and Master Control relay for enable / disable of a series of rungs are the rest of the available instructions. I think multiple outputs were allowed per rung.

I will see if there is a handheld available as a backup plan. I'm kind of curious about it now, I think I will see if there are any videos on YouTube.

 

[JeffKiper]

I was able to upload from a Series 1 JR. It didnt allow me to download but I was able to upload and backup the system. 1st and inly Jr I ever saw.

 

[Steve Bailey]

I just followed your link and the wording says that DirectSoft won't even connect to your model. Based on that, I wouldn't purchase DirectSoft, but if it is a free download it's worth trying.
It will be a few hours before I'll know if I can email LM1 to you. I have two old nearly identical Dells. The one with the functional charger doesn't have a functioning hard drive, so I have to charge an old battery and swap it into the one that will boot. Even then, I only get about ten minutes of battery life. But that's the only hardware I have with the ability to copy from a floppy to a thumb drive.

Edit: Jeff, that's impressive that you were able to upload from a Junior using DirectSoft. GE had a separate part number for Logicmaster One Jr. and my recollection is that it only supported a very slow baud rate. This thread is turning into a trip in the wayback machine.

 

[JeffKiper]

I still have the audio cable with the built in resistor, 422, 232 DCU , timer/ counter modules and I think even the parallel printer module. A shop that I worked at closed down was throwing out all the old "JUNK PLC" stuff. So i grabbed it all.
Over the years it has seved me well. Dark Grey, light grey, yellow, and I think a few other colors all with the same DirectSoft

 

[Steve Bailey]

The old batteries won't take enough of a charge to boot the old laptop.

Send me a PM with your mailing address and I'll send you the floppy and hope it turns out to be readable.

 

[strantor]

I just followed your link and the wording says that DirectSoft won't even connect to your model. Based on that, I wouldn't purchase DirectSoft, but if it is a free download it's worth trying.
It will be a few hours before I'll know if I can email LM1 to you. I have two old nearly identical Dells. The one with the functional charger doesn't have a functioning hard drive, so I have to charge an old battery and swap it into the one that will boot. Even then, I only get about ten minutes of battery life. But that's the only hardware I have with the ability to copy from a floppy to a thumb drive.

The old batteries won't take enough of a charge to boot the old laptop.

Send me a PM with your mailing address and I'll send you the floppy and hope it turns out to be readable.

I appreciate the time you put into this, sorry your old laptop wouldn't boot. I have had directsoft installed in one of my VMs for years now, so won't need to pay anything to try. I sent you a PM. Thank you for all the help.

 

[Steve Bailey]

I managed to get the zip file transferred from the floppy. I just sent you an email. Let me know if you received it OK. Some email servers won't accept .zip attachments.