Omron, SCADA and OPC

[BobB]

I am at present looking at a job for quotation purposes where I would need to communicate with 4 Omron CJ1 PLCs controlling a generator system and a multitude of power monitors on Modbus RTU. The thinking is to use Omron CJ1 PLCs with just serial ports on board to collect the data from the power monitors and connect all the PLCs to a SCADA system via Ethernet. There is no peer to peer involved that is critical so Ethernet will be OK.

I prefer to use Citect which has all the Omron native drivers (FINS Gateway) free of charge. I have used it before and it works at a million miles an hour and is extremly reliable. Citect have, IMHO, the best trend screens and trending system of any SCADA system on the market. This will be of prime importance for the job.

However, $$$$ will probably win the day. I am looking at Adroit SCADA from South Africa. The connection to the PLCs would have to be by OPC and Ethernet. I am having a good look at the Kepware OPC driver for Omron.

Has anyone used this combination (probably not) and how were the results?

If not, has anyone used a Kepware OPC driver with Omron (or another brand) PLCs and another SCADA system and how were the results?

I normally use Omron Controller Link for my peer to peer and also usually into the SCADA system. Citect generally reports about 15000 digital reads per second and about 300 word reads per second on Controller Link running at only 2 megs. It is quite outstanding. Generally about 8 or 9 PLCs.

I have only ever used OPC once before and that was BACnet over Ethernet and I fear my view of OPC is certainly a bit "coloured" due the the extremly poor response times and many problems with drivers and hardware compatabilities, drivers dropping out etc etc. I would be extremly interested in any comments, good or bad, that anyone can offer re OPC.

 

[JesperMP]

I havent tried Omron PLCs or OPC servers for Omron, but I would not be afraid to go the route you have laid out.

There are at least two reputable vendors for Omron OPC servers (Kep and Ingear), and what about Omron ? Dont they have OPC servers themselves ?
So, if the unlikely should happen that an OPC server is not reliable enough, you can try another.
Normally you can try before you buy, so why not try all available possibilities before you decide ?

I use OPC with Ethernet to Siemens S7 PLCs and I am quite pleased with the result.

By the way, I aggree that Citect is a very good SCADA package, and they would have beed a strong contender for our use, if it wasnt for the very high cost per license. They are 2-4 times more expensive than the solution we are using right now. I think that Citect is pricing themselves out of the market for small to medium sized projects.

 

[Gerry M]

In general I use OPC all the time with my home made VB application. I have had problems with certain vendors and drivers(ThinknDo). Others were rock solid.(AD with DSDAta or KEP). I have heard lots of good things about Citect locally also, never used it, yet.

Jesper,
What solution are you using besides Citect?

 

[JesperMP]

Gerry. We are using Win CC Flexible on panels and on PCs with RT.

The decision for this is largely because it fits our requirement quite well - in particular multilanguage where many other vendors have serious problems.
Previous good experiences with Protool.
Very advantageous price.
Obviously good integration with Siemens products, which we are using extensively anyway.

Win CC Flexible have been quite a mixed blessing, but it is getting more "acceptable" over the time. I have now taken the switch completely and am not using Protool unless for small updates to older projects.

Another department in our company has made a machine HMI in C++, but they are looking to move to Win CC Flex too.

 

[jthomes]

We used Kepware KepServer (I think) and the Omron CJ1M controllers on a project we had, integrated with Iconics. The plcs and opc worked very well together. Our problem is that we used a wireless ethernet bridge to connect our plcs to the server and that slowed everything down when pulling in points. Besides a few programming issues that I am having (in a different post, someone else wrote a program for the company I work for before I started) the two seem to go well together

 

[seppoalanen]

How about CX-Supervisor with FINS Gateway ?

 

[BobB]

How about CX-Supervisor with FINS Gateway ?

Have used CX-Supervisor on several projects. It is quite good for some jobs but the use of trends is not it's strong point and that will be crucial for this project.

When I have a good look at Adroit the production of trend screens is the first place I will look. Citect's handling of trends is absolutely brilliant and I wish to present excellent trends for the client to review in the tender.

Thank you all for the comments on the OPC issue. As I stated, my view of OPC is probably a bit "coloured" due to nasty BACnet experience.

 

[Alan Case]

Hi Bob. When you reach a certain stage and I would say you at there now you have the ability to say to the client "this is what you need. It costs more than the competitors prices but it will do the job. If you dont like my way then fine, it is your money, spend it elsewhere." I gave up trying to win jobs using less than ideal solutions a long time ago. It was my name that gets remembered, not the software in the background.
Regards Alan Case

 

[BobB]

Very true Alan but I would like to offer 2 options because I know someone else will be offering the cheaper one. There will also be reasons for the preference and some screen and trend shots. I do not think anyone else will go to that trouble.

I am sure I can put together enough compelling evidence to head them in the right direction and if I lose the job, so what. I have more than enough to keep me so busy I do not have time for even a weekend off.

However, I am 62 now and who knows what is around the corner. Trying to get enough together for a reasonably comfortable old age - if I live that long.

I agree with your thinking by the way. Just finished a pretty big generator job for one of our telcos. They wanted a lot of work done on the main switch boards, including new ATS logic. They have had a couple of disasters on other sites and evryone had a say in how they wanted the job done and commissioned. I did not agree with all the nonsense, have been doing control work most of my life, so got up from the table at the meeting, said "then get someone else to do it gentlemen" and kept walking. 5 minutes later I heard several sets of footsteps pitter patter down the corridor. Did the job my way in the end - and it worked perfectly.

 

[supafly]

I am trying to achieve a similar layout as you bob but my knowledge of PLCs and Citect SCADA is very new. I want to communicate the Omron CJ1M to Citect and don know how to achive this. I am need for much help.....thanks

 

[BobB]

What version of Citect? Which communications method? Controller Link? Ethernet? Serial? Sysmac Link?

Some more details will be helpfull.

 

[parky]

I Have used kep & it's good, another nice little scada is cezar from beijers, it costs about 1,250 euros for a 256 tag system.

I have used it on mitsubishi & it was very simple to use has good logging & trends not bad, it works with opc & has a lot of it's own drivers (about 30).
you used to be able to download a demo that's fully functional but runtime only lasts 10 mins, a shame really as an hour would be better.

 

[supafly]

i am using citect version 6.0 and want to use serial communication to CJ1M

 

[BobB]

Are you aware how slow serial is? Citect has a driver for serial communications to Omron called OMRON that is included with the SCADA package but it is very old.

Ask Citect for the comlimentary CD that contains the Omron FINS Gateway setup and drivers. Much better than the old serial driver and will allow access to more data types.

Also suitable for Controller Link, Sysmac Link, Ethernet, serial.

This web page has some details about the driver but if I remember correctly, there is a file included with the CD that details word types that can be read and written to.
http://www3.citect.com/driverweb/home?cid=418&pid=23911

The last time I used the driver there was also an extensive document on how to set Citect up for the FINS driver.

Hope this helps.

 

[BobB]

it works with opc & has a lot of it's own drivers (about 30).

I think Citect is well in excess of 100 drivers now.

has good logging & trends not bad,

This area is really one of Citect's real strengths. The trends are really excellent. I am logging data in a power station, some as often as every 10ms (frequency). There are 6 diesel generators with lots of data - 2 sets have 58 analogue inputs and the other 4 have about 25 analogues - and storing 12 months data on an 80G hard drive. There is also lots of data for the outgoing feeders etc.

It also has it's weaknesses, as does any software.

I have found with OPC if there a problem with a tag, the whole driver tends to slow down dramatically and prefer to use sepcific drivers that do not appear to have this problem.

By the way, I was not invited to quote on the above mentioned job. The Adroit package was specified. The contractor was specified. NHP (Adroit distributors) used to do their own SCADA systems. They have now ceased competing with their customers but I suspect that the specified contractor is an ex employee. Not sure but will wait and see who they are.

I do not know if it has happened but there was a press release on the Schneider Australia website that Schneider were "merging" (acquiring?) Citect. This was in 2005. Will have to find out.

The press release claimed that Citect had sold in excess of 100,000 software licenses world wide!! Pretty impressive for a fairly small company.