[OT] - Estimating

[The Plc Kid]

I like to use Volts software for making conduit schedules and material lists, calculating conduit runs and fils,etc it makes it much faster http://www.dolphins-software.com/

Also it sounds like you are doing a lot of point to point wiring? Why no on machine IO or networked IO?

We normally set a point IO, flex IO block or 1756 IO in a small sub panel in logical locations of IO groups then we just need to run a powwer cable 24 vdc or 120 vac and a ethernet cable.

Easier and more cost effective to install in almost all cases and IMO makes maintenance and troubleshooting easier.

 

[The Plc Kid]

Is tray cable and tray a better option? In most cases it is easier,less cost and fsater to install than traditional conduit.

We do it both ways depending on what makes sense in the location.

We use this type of tray a lot. http://www.snaketray.com/

 

[Steve Etter]

Yes, I am doing both lay-in wire trough and remote I/O for exactly the reasons you describe. I am using Flex I/O with Safety modules where required and have eliminated every long run of I/O wiring I can. For the most part my conduit runs will be between a remote enclosure and a wire trough with only a few relatively long distance wire runs and those are only for power and CAT5 cable.

Where the time-crunch comes is the span between when all the enclosures arrive and when the machine is ready to start up. This is where everyone is focused. Once the enclosures arrive, I have to run conduit and wire to and from nine enclosures and the machine. I look to have all the wire trough and machine-to-trough conduit run in advance so that only the conduit connecting directly to these enclosures are left. If money were no object and I believed I could gain enough time (days worth), I would consider trying to pull my wire between enclosures prior to their arrival and then have it pulled to the side while the conduit is finished. Unfortunately I seriously doubt that will gain me much time.

Steve

 

[Lancie1]

I would consider trying to pull my wire between enclosures prior to their arrival and then have it pulled to the side while the conduit is finished. Unfortunately I seriously doubt that will gain me much time.

All that wire could kink up and get tied in knots. You might save some time by getting everything else ready. Check to see that all mounting hardware and supports for the enclosures, conduit, and conduit fittings are available, all knock-out tools are on-site. Any trip off-site to get materials, that can be done now, will save some time when the enclosures arrive.

...so that only the conduit connecting directly to these enclosures are left.

It might be faster to use tray-to-box wireways in some cases, instead of a bunch of conduits. Cut one big hole in the top of each enclosure, instead of a bunch of small holes, and install one wireway instead of several conduits.

 

[The Plc Kid]

Yes, I am doing both lay-in wire trough and remote I/O for exactly the reasons you describe. I am using Flex I/O with Safety modules where required and have eliminated every long run of I/O wiring I can. For the most part my conduit runs will be between a remote enclosure and a wire trough with only a few relatively long distance wire runs and those are only for power and CAT5 cable.

Where the time-crunch comes is the span between when all the enclosures arrive and when the machine is ready to start up. This is where everyone is focused. Once the enclosures arrive, I have to run conduit and wire to and from nine enclosures and the machine. I look to have all the wire trough and machine-to-trough conduit run in advance so that only the conduit connecting directly to these enclosures are left. If money were no object and I believed I could gain enough time (days worth), I would consider trying to pull my wire between enclosures prior to their arrival and then have it pulled to the side while the conduit is finished. Unfortunately I seriously doubt that will gain me much time.

Steve

For future reference you may want to consider using point IO also as you could do CIP safety over ethernet and the wiring would be much easier and easy to troubleshoot. Procesor must be guardlogix also.

That is all I use now. Best thing since sliced bread IMHO.

 

[The Plc Kid]

As lancie said having everything there and preventing wasted trips is key. I do this all the time as I have been doing big retrofits for over a year now non stop.

I like to have several of the fold out 4x8 tables and organize all supplues on ther like terminal,conduit fittings,etc

Pays to have several wire carts setup for different kinds of pulls without changover. I set them up by wire gage and the colors I need.

Multiple copies of the prints and key prints in the largest format you can plot. use kinkos if you don't have a large plotter and hand them on the wall at the work area. It saves a lot of time.

 

[brucechase]

For control panel to the equipment, I pretty much use Hoffman Layin wireway that is 2" X 2" or 4" x 4" square in size. There are standard 90s, tees, and other connectors. Use a Greenlee punch for the right size square hole. Any round holes (PB, Pilot lights, etc) get a good flanged Greenlee hole saw - Much faster and easier than punches.

 

[Steve Etter]

For future reference you may want to consider using point IO also as you could do CIP safety over ethernet and the wiring would be much easier and easy to troubleshoot. Procesor must be guardlogix also.

I mis-wrote when I said Flex I/O - I am using Point I/O and a CompactLogix L43S Processor - so I am right in with what you are doing, too.

For control panel to the equipment, I pretty much use Hoffman Layin wireway that is 2" X 2" or 4" x 4" square in size.

This is precisely the wireway I am using - both sizes. The 2-1/2 x 2-1/2 is for control wiring (mostly CAT5) and the 4 x 4 is for power.

I will stick with conduit between the enclosures to the wireway on this job for two reasons. First, there will only be two conduit to most enclosures and those will go directly to the wireway and, second, because the wireway is in trenching in the the floor and under diamond plate. With the relatively narrow width of the trenches and the fact that the two wireways must be mounted one above the other, there is minimal room for vertical wireway runs. Furthermore, there will be air and other piping run in some of these trenches so space is tight anyway.

Steve