OT -Love(???) For Industrial Engineers

[Aabeck]

Just had another run-in with a highly trained industrial engineer. I actually asked his boss in front of him if engineers had a college course on how to ask others to do their job for them as they couldn't.

It took some simple editing, but I "found" the following class in an engineering bachelors degree program:

 

[iraiam]

Yes, we are big on hiring "engineers" that don't engineer anything.

 

[sparkie]

Can't say that at my company. Our engineers are actually pretty sharp, but we don't have any controls engineers on staff, just a handful of knowledgeable old-timers.

 

[Jeev]

SOME engineers are not ALL engineers. Don't tar the rest of us with that brush please.

 

[willxfmr]

I've worked with a lot of engineers, and I've even worked with some good ones. But I have yet to meet one that would say "I'm not real comfortable/experienced in this environment, and I would like some help." I guess being the 3rd shift Bubba doesn't get you the respect one might hope.


Will.

 

[kwade]

With all due respect to those engineers who have earned the respect accorded to the title...
I have repeatedly made this statement to an engineer where I work:
"I have worked at places where engineers do their own work."

 

[Iner]

I guess this thread is only directed towards "industrial engineers", as I understand, people who work in their own factory and are in charge of optimizing and making the most of their installations and process?

If that's the case I understand that their job is basically to write project charters, statement of works, to select suppliers and monitor them until the factory accept the new installation or modifications without reservations.

They are more project managers than engineers, depending of the company. I have met some of them that were just able to fullfill an excel sheet though I have met others that were highly knowledgable and extremely useful.

 

[Saffa]

I fully understand some people's frustrations because there are plenty of "Copy & Paste Consultants" out there. I come across them often and it's somewhat scary when the guy who designed a bit of plant can't even identify the components in real life when standing in front of them.

That said, there are lots of awesome engineers out there. Who do you think designed all the PLCs and control gear you guys use every day?

One of the biggest challenges these days i think is getting practical experience for engineers. Being relatively young myself and having to look after a team of sparkies, I regularly go out and help pull cables, fit cable tray, terminate field wiring etc so i understand the work I'm asking my team to do. But not everyone has that opportunity and i think that's a shame and leads to professionals who have no idea about how the stuff they're designing will actually be put together.

 

[Iner]

I fully understand some people's frustrations because there are plenty of "Copy & Paste Consultants" out there. I come across them often and it's somewhat scary when the guy who designed a bit of plant can't even identify the components in real life when standing in front of them.

I have seen senior projets managers not knowing what was a chamfer or industrial engineers not knowing what is a vacuum generator.

That's why we should differentiate in my opinion between engineers who are actually engineering, and those who are more project manager or in administrative tasks.

 

[geniusintraining]

I guess being the 3rd shift Bubba doesn't get you the respect one might hope.

If you dont call me at 3 am to come down and fix the machine that 'will not ever run again' (read: move the prox sw on the cylinder) and you can fix it yourself then you would get lots of respect from me, Bubba is my best friend

how to ask others to do their job for them

Aabeck, the real art of the game.... if you dont figure it out until you are done with the work then you think "why am I doing this?"

 

[Aabeck]

This was not directed at electrical and mechanical engineers that actually design working parts, controls, PLC's, computers, etc.

It was more for the guys who are supposed to know how factories and processes work and come up with a better way to make the factory run - a job that basically is getting information and ideas from everyone else and merging them into one brilliant idea. That they put their own name on.

I had one walk up to me in a hallway and ask me "is the timer set for 30 minutes" All I could answer was "I'm sure somewhere there is a timer set to 30 minutes"
He the asked "Well?" I asked "What timer" He showed me a photo on his phone of a close-up of a timer set to minutes, range of 0-60, dial pointed to 30. I answered him "yes, the timer is set at 30 minutes" Again he asked "Well?" I had to ask him what he wanted to know about the timer he was not asking me. He then asked "At 30 minutes how much chemical do I add" I answered (and wish I had a photo of his face) "I don't know. You would have to ask the engineer in charge of that line"

 

[kwade]

...Again he asked "Well?" I had to ask him what he wanted to know about the timer he was not asking me. He then asked "At 30 minutes how much chemical do I add" I answered (and wish I had a photo of his face) "I don't know. You would have to ask the engineer in charge of that line"

Or the Procedure Document, Spec Sheet, WorkOrder or the [insert SOP document here], but NOT the electron/bit wrangler.

 

[Aabeck]

Or the Procedure Document, Spec Sheet, WorkOrder or the [insert SOP document here]

Or any other document that would have been on his desk or computer.

Also, I didn't mention it, but to this day I still do not know what machine that timer was on and what process it added what chemical to for what reason (although I am guessing the reason was replenishment.)

 

[mk42]

That said, there are lots of awesome engineers out there. Who do you think designed all the PLCs and control gear you guys use every day?

See this is one of the things that scares me about our industry. The guys I've met who actually develop products (especially software engineers) have never used their type of products out in the field, and almost never interact with real users. They typically take a spec that someone else has written, and design a product that meets it. Usually without questioning if the spec makes sense.

 

[Tom Jenkins]

One of the biggest challenges these days i think is getting practical experience for engineers. Being relatively young myself and having to look after a team of sparkies, I regularly go out and help pull cables, fit cable tray, terminate field wiring etc so i understand the work I'm asking my team to do. But not everyone has that opportunity and i think that's a shame and leads to professionals who have no idea about how the stuff they're designing will actually be put together.

You have nailed it.

I made all of my engineers build panels, terminate field wiring, do commissioning, work with contractors, troubleshoot and repair old systems. That used to be the norm (back in the stone age when I became and engineer), but is a rare occurrence nowadays.

Part of the problem is education. There is so much that engineers need to know that theoretical classes tend to push out pragmatic ones like drafting.

Part of the problem is personal - many engineers were encouraged by their parents to join a profession where they wouldn't have to get dirty and sweaty.

Part of problem is societal. In general work ethic has decreased, an attitude of entitlement has increased, and the concept of "do whatever it takes to get the job done" has disappeared.

Saffa has given us the solution to this. How do we go about implementing it?