plc5 adressing is confusing the hell out of me

bornwild

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hey everyone.

Can some one please explain the addressing. I am quite new to plcs 5. can some one provide a pictographic explanation.I have read a lot. The more i read the more i get confused. what is the difference between rack, slot , module group number. How do i identify the inputs physically by getting the I/O address from the rslogix 5 program. Please forgive me . I know there are a lot of threads but still I didn't get it.o_O
 
Please forgive me . I know there are a lot of threads but still I didn't get it.

you are not alone in your confusion ... instead of just rehashing the printed books for you, why don't we use a specific example for a hands-on lesson? ...

suggestion: go to the Processor Status on your system - to the Switches tab - tell us what Addressing Mode you're using (2-slot or 1-slot or 1/2 slot) ... then also make a list of what modules you have in each of the slots in your chassis ... in listing the slots use LETTERS instead of numbers ... example:

Slot A = PLC-5/20E processor
Slot B = 1771-IA16
Slot C = 1771-OA16
Slot D = empty
etc.

going further: if you have additional (remote) chassis connected, do the same thing for them too - EXCEPT - the Switches tab doesn't apply to those chassis - only to the local/main (processor resident) chassis ... for those extra chassis, we need the DIP switch settings from the chassis backplane - and the DIP switch settings from the ASB Adapter modules too ... (yes, you will have to shut down the system and pull the modules to provide that information) ...

what you're up against: I tell my students that PLC-5 addressing is the "ugliest" thing that we do in the 5-day class ... we always do it the first thing on Tuesday morning - when everyone is bright-eyed and ready to go ... even so, it takes about an hour to work through all of the details - and learn how to "count out" the addresses as you're asking to do ... there's no way we can type up an hour's worth of show-and-tell hands-on exercises here - so give us the information on YOUR system and we'll be glad to help you understand it ...

just as a starter: the definition of a "RACK" is as follows:

8 words of INput table - AND - 8 words of OUTput table ...

how that relates to your system depends on the DIP switch settings - and on what types of modules you have installed ...

survival tip: do NOT use the information in the IO Configuration area to determine your Addressing Mode settings ... that area is "documentation type stuff" and might certainly be WRONG ...

final thought: you really don't need colorful language (as in your title) to make your point ... anyone who knows the answers to your particular question has already felt the same frustration ... the forum is a much nicer neighborhood when we all work to keep it that way ... (this would be a good place for a "smiley" - but I never use them) ...
 
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well it looks like altafjamadar has made a good start ... if your local/main chassis is using half-slot addressing and 32-point modules then the chart offered above might be an excellent starting point for you ...

I: 000/00_07
10_17

00 Rack no.
0 Plate no
00_07 address bit.

quick question to altafjamadar: I've never run across the "Plate no" designation you've used ... is that something specific to your company's method of documentation? ... or? ...
 
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Make sure you realize the difference between a "rack" and a "chassis".

A chassis is just a piece of hardware with a bunch of slots for modules.

A rack is made up of 8 modules and you can have more than one rack in a chassis. I believe you can even have 1/2 rack in one chassis and the other half of the same rack in a different chassis.
 
A chassis is just a piece of hardware with a bunch of slots for modules.

yep, in fact it actually says "chassis" on the label ... specifically, it doesn't say "rack" ... one BIG/HUGE problem is that many (most?) people who work with PLCs blur the distinction of the two words: "rack" and "chassis" ...

how many readers have heard this way of expressing a certain addressing situation? ...

So using a 16-slot rack with one-slot addressing, you'll have two "logical racks" within the one "physical rack"

now even though the statement might be considered to be technically "correct" – it still doesn't give us the address of the red wire connected to screw number 12 ...

A rack is made up of 8 modules ...

that could be considered "correct" – but it's not necessarily so ... actually I gave an accurate definition of a "rack" in my post #2 above ...

to see the potential problem with the "8 modules" statement quoted here, consider the chassis drawn by altafjamadar – which uses half-slot addressing ... there the two "racks" he has shown (00 and 01) each contain only FOUR modules – not EIGHT ...

going further: consider a sixteen-slot chassis - filled with 16-point modules – and set up for two-slot addressing ... in this case a "rack" would be made up of SIXTEEN modules – not EIGHT ...

and you can have more than one rack in a chassis. I believe you can even have 1/2 rack in one chassis and the other half of the same rack in a different chassis.

yes, back on track again ...

the point of all of this is that PLC-5 addressing scheme IS (I repeat: it IS) confusing ... the only approach that works RELIABLY is to fully understand it – and not try to shortcut the learning experience involved in mastering it ... as soon as we hear back from bornwild I'll be glad to use his equipment as a starting point - and then demonstrate the method that I use to teach this particular subject ... hopefully that will nail down some of these vague-sounding ideas - by focusing our attention on a real-world situation ...
 
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I try to use the term "logical rack" when discussing PLC-5 addressing. Throwing the word "logical" in there is helpful to those who might hear "rack" and think chassis, but hear "logical" and realize that we are talking about somthing in the 'puter, not necessarily the same as a chassis.
 
Throwing the word "logical" in there is helpful to those who might hear "rack" and think chassis,

certainly I appreciate and respect your opinion, Paul - but my personal teaching approach is different ...

I insist on having my students fully understand the actual definitions of the words "rack" and "chassis" – so that they will then be able to distinguish what is REALLY being meant by their co-workers and the other people around them who so often MISUSE those words ...

here's why I like my approach better ...

the fact is that YOU (personally) in YOUR explanations might indeed draw a distinction between "rack" and "chassis" by faithfully using the terms "logical rack" – and "physical rack" ... and that might certainly work well for your purposes ...

the potential problem comes up when YOU (personally) have "left the building" – and OTHER people fail to draw the same "logical" and "physical" distinctions ...

I shudder to think how confusing it would be to have my students hear me teach "logical racks" and "physical racks" in the classroom – and then go back to their plants and have to contend with the word "rack" being thrown around indiscriminately without the "logical" and "physical" modifiers they've come to expect ...

personally I consider it a better approach to have my students firmly "nail down" the ideas – so that they will be able to correctly use those ideas REGARDLESS of the terminology that other people around them are using - or misusing ...

this same line of reasoning is behind why I refuse to let my students refer to data bit status using the terms:

"set" and "cleared" – or
"set" and "reset" – or
"high" and "low" – or
"true" and "false" – or

anything else along those same lines ... the reason is that when we monitor a data bit's status, we invariably see a ONE or a ZERO in the bit/box ... how can using ANY OTHER terminology be as concise and as easy to interpret as saying: "the bit contains a ONE" – or – "the bit contains a ZERO" ? ...

quite a lot of my job is related to clearing away the clutter and the misconceptions that most of my "more experienced" students bring to my classes ... I'm afraid that "racks" (including "logical" - and "physical" – and "unmodified" ) account for a sizeable percentage of those misconceptions ...

as I said before, I certainly appreciate and respect your opinion, Paul ... but my personal approach is different – and that's quite possibly because you and I have different objectives in our work ...
 
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I agree with you, Ron, and understand that we have different goals in our communications.

I do use the words chassis or backplane when I am talking about that thingy that holds the PLC cards.

I just add in the word logical when I say rack in reference to the PLC address scheme.
 
Here are some threads that might help you.

http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?p=124847#post124847

http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=21174

http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=21174

Some of those posts also have links to other threads on the subject.

Over the years we've had some misunderstandings over the subject of chassis, rack, group, and slot. I myself have misused them even when trying to be careful - for example I used rack where I should have used chassis in the first listed thread. Each of those terms have specific meanings and its covered in some of the linked threads. Make sure you understand them, and get the PLC5 addressing manual, there is a link to it in the first thread listed above. It can be confusing at first so just be patient, suddenly something will click and you'll get it.
 
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It gets even better when you toss in a bunch of power flex drives and a couple cabinets full of flex I/O. :sick: .
For me it was easier to grasp the concept of a group and then the rack and chassis was a bit easier. It still isn't easy but at least I'm not running around looking for a rack when it's actually a freq drive.
 
the "big picture" approach ...

the absolute best way to wrap your head around the whole "addressing" idea is this:

most people START with the hardware – and THEN try to come up with a series of "addresses" to tie that hardware to the PLC's input and output data tables ...

that's backwards ...

actually it's best to START with the data tables FIRST (a paper printout is often very handy) and THEN see how the PLC's hardware devices "plug in" to those tables ...

in other words, you can take the printouts of the input and the output data tables – and then pencil-in ALL of the various "racks" and "module groups" even BEFORE you start messing around with ANY of the hardware ... this is pretty much like laying out the map for a new section of land – before you start building any roads or houses on it ...

so the "higher level" approach to the addressing problem is to realize that the PLC-5 processor originally left the factory with ALL of its "racks" - and ALL of its "module groups" - already pre-defined and permanently "mapped out" in its little electronic brain ... and now that the processor has been installed in your plant, it's just a matter of figuring out where all of your field hardware devices "land" on that pre-existing map ... the "trick" is that (unlike a map of a new subdivision) we don't use "streets" and "lot numbers" to refer to the various locations – instead we use "racks" and "module groups" to identify specific areas of the map ...

so yes, it's completely natural for someone to point to a specific piece of hardware and ask questions such as: "What rack or chassis is THIS?" – or – "What group is THIS module in?" ...

but ...

a much better approach would be to point to the same piece of hardware and ask questions like this instead: "Where on my data table does THIS particular device land?" ... once you start looking at it THAT way, then a lot of things that never made sense before – suddenly fall right into place and become totally obvious ...

I've lost count of how many grown men over the years have gotten tears in their eyes when I've explained these "addressing concepts" this way ... keep in mind that most of my students are technicians with years of PLC experience behind them – and many of them will tell me that this "PLC-5 addressing thing" is a topic that they've never really gotten a handle on – regardless of how many "other" classes they've gone through ... sometimes just realigning their point-of-view is all that it takes to relieve years of frustration and confusion ...

side trip: think of how easy this "map first" approach makes addressing devices such as PanelViews and drives ... the fact that these types of hardware don't really fit into "racks" - and that they don't have any "modules" - is thoroughly confusing to many people ... but once you ask the question: "Where does this PanelView land on the data table?" then BINGO! – things suddenly start to fall into place ... now the terms "racks" and "module groups" can be seen for what they REALLY are ... specifically, they're just the terms that we use to identify the "real estate" located on our data tables ...

the fact that we happen to be plugging a "full rack" of our "rackless" PanelView into the specific segment of our real estate identified as "rack 01" starting at "module group 0" now makes perfect sense ... just circle that part of the data tables and pencil in "PanelView" and you're done ...

on the other hand, if you're still trying to picture that same PanelView as being a "rack/chassis/module" type of thing, then the statement above comes out as pure gibberish ...

in simplest terms, it all boils down to this:

once you learn to recognize the "racks" and the "module groups" which are already permanently mapped out on your PLC-5's data tables - then the "racks" and the "module groups" in the field hardware will pretty much take care of themselves ...
 
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