Powerflex 4m Running Utility Pump

[solano_79]

Hello All,

I am a newbie and I am looking to learn more about plc and controls. To keep it interesting I decided to bring it into some home projects. I have a 135 gallon aquarium and thought it would be nice to build a transfer tank using a 32 gallon trash can, utility pump, and a powerflex 4m.

Utility Pump (item no.: 65836):
Pacific Hydrostar (Harbor Freights Finest)
120V
60Hz
8.4 Amp
Brush Motor

AB Powerflex 4M

My problem:
I keep getting a F004 Error. My understanding is this is related to incoming voltage being low or interrupted. I do not have the Powerflex directly into the wall but through a powerstrip. I have the out put wired to U/T1 and V/T2. I have the ground wired to the chassis ground of the Powerflex.

Could my problem be the pump is not designed to work with a vfd? Any insight?

Thanks,
E

 

[jraef]

The PowerFlex is a VFD for 3 phase motors, you can't run a single phase motor with it (without burning up the motor and/or the drive).

 

[solano_79]

Thank you for the reply. Lucky for me nothing seems damaged. I will source a three phase motor.

 

[deemon113]

You won't be able to get three phase at your home. You would need a rotary phase converter.

 

[notfet]

Use a scr or triac controller single phase kind of like a light dimmer that has a 0-10v input to run to a PLC

 

[bright676]

The incoming power needs to be 3 phase.

 

[willxfmr]

Single Phase Drive

Just for clarity, you can get a 120v single phase input drive, with 3 phase output, but they are not very common. The largest you can get with an AB Flex 4 would be for a 1.5 HP motor. We used them quite a bit on small portable conveyors where I used to work. The 240v single phase drives make handy 3 phase converters for the industrial size saw you buy at an auction and stick in the garage just to annoy the wife...

http://raise.rockwellautomation.com...ents.asp?CID=471DC8781C7246B59357DAFB762DA330


Will.

 

[solano_79]

Thank everyone for their responses. The Powerflex I have is a 120v single phase input with a 3 phase output. 22F-V1P6N103 Series A (1/4hp Motor Rating)

I thought I could just hook up the pump motor across any two phases and get it to work. The pump will run for a short period of time but than the drive will fault giving the F004 code. I thought I would have got a motor fault if anything.

I did a quick search on transformers but most people are trying to go the other way (1 to 3 phase). But if I am spending money now maybe I should just source a 1/4hp 3phase motor.

Thoughts?
E

 

[OkiePC]

...
maybe I should just source a 1/4hp 3phase motor.

Thoughts?
E

Yes. But 120VAC 3 Phase? I haven't seen one. Maybe they exist...

 

[milldrone]

But if I am spending money now maybe I should just source a 1/4hp 3phase motor.

Thoughts?
E

Conventional wisdom would be to source a three phase 240 volt motor.

However there are single phase output VFD's.

http://www.anaconsystems.com/text/opti_e2.html

When you see the price and conditions you will want to go with the three phase route.

There is also this interesting thread about VFD's and single phase motors.
http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=18541&highlight=ssr+vfd

Keep in mind this is the last thread the poster with his solution participated in.
http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showpost.php?p=200316&postcount=36

To the best of my knowledge no one has verified that this will work.

 

[jraef]

Yes. But 120VAC 3 Phase? I haven't seen one. Maybe they exist...

The VFDs that take in 120V still put out 230V 3phase. They use what's called a "voltage doubler" circuit on the input rectifier that boosts the 169VDC made from the 120VAC up to about 335VDC, which the VFD uses to create 230VAC again. The reason for the limitation is that the capacitors and diodes necessary to pull that off get so large and expensive at above 1-1/2HP that it becomes cheaper and smaller to just use a single phase transformer to boost it on the AC side first.

As to the single phase VFDs for single phase motors, there are too many conditional use issues to make it practical. You can ONLY use them on two types of single phase motors; PSC (Permanent Split Capacitor) and Shaded Pole types. shaded Pole motors can use simpler rheostats/potentiometers or triac dimmers to vary their speed anyway, so it's really just PSC. That's only a small fraction of the various single phase motor designs out there, they tend to be more expensive and are typically only used on low torque applications like fans and some types of pumps. Most other single phase motors fall into types that cannot work with VFDs. Basically if it has a centrifugal switch, you cannot use it, which accounts for about 75% of the larger single phase motors out there. Generally, even if you have a PSC single phase motor under 2HP, it's often cheaper to swap out the motor for a 230V 3phase unit and use one of the cheap little single phase to three phase VFDs.

 

[sahilgupta1527]

how can i do this ...... kindly tell me

 

[sahilgupta1527]

Use a scr or triac controller single phase kind of like a light dimmer that has a 0-10v input to run to a PLC

how can i do this ...... kindly tell me

 

[notfet]

To get technical, all vfd's use a bridge rectifier whether it's 3 phase or single phase input ac power. And then it becomes dc. It is converted back to three phase ac via mosfets or igbt transistors. This way it can vary the speed to what you want. If the vfd is not monitored very well they can be fooled into running from single phase power. By getting heavy diodes(4) and putting that dc on to the capacitor. I do that to an hitachi drive it's running my a/c for my house. Some drives you may have to reverse engineer that monitoring circuit. To tell you he drive it's ok. Little house hold drives are simple.

 

[pal]

To add to jraef's last post , he didn't mention another problem with 1 ph capacitor motors and that is the speed range . The capacitor is used in series and is designed to provide a rotating magnetic field in the motor . The offset is fixed and therefore you will only have a limited range of speeds available and the motor will need to be started at the plate frequency before changing to the run frequency .
As jreaf says your much better off with a 3 ph motor .